Is it possible to take (or have taken) Transgenic Grafting as an Acquisition? Transgenic Grafting is from the DH Radical's Handbook and allows for a Talent or Trait from a xenos to be grafted onto a human. I'm thinking that the Arch-Militant would be very interested in seeing if the Ork Freebooter's 'Ard Trait could be grafted to him. Getting green skin out of the deal might be a fun quirk too.
Using Transgenic Grafting in RT.
I suppose if your GM is ok with it, then yes - with very little rules modifications you could graft alien traits onto one of your crew members....however, you should also understand that doing so is reason enough to be hunted down by the Holy Inquisition. Rogue traders have significant leeway, but even they (or their crew) are not beyond the reach of the Holy Ordos.
If someone in my RT game wanted to go and commit the heresy of transgenic grafting, i'd let them do it...but there would be a price, and not just in throne gelt!
Considering the pile of abilities tucked into ork genome, there's a very good chance for the graft to bring in some unwanted bagage. The generics involved are way beyond the Imperium knowldege. It would be akin to juggling with grenades : it's impressive, but the risk of accidents is very high.
Though at least he's not planning on acquiring tyranid genes. That one would be juggling with grenades afer removing the safety pin....
weaver95 said:
I suppose if your GM is ok with it, then yes - with very little rules modifications you could graft alien traits onto one of your crew members....however, you should also understand that doing so is reason enough to be hunted down by the Holy Inquisition. Rogue traders have significant leeway, but even they (or their crew) are not beyond the reach of the Holy Ordos.
If someone in my RT game wanted to go and commit the heresy of transgenic grafting, i'd let them do it...but there would be a price, and not just in throne gelt!
Sure, it's heresy. Of course, it's not like mutants, psykers, and even some xenos don't get sanctioned to serve the Imperium. With enough secrecy, many results of Transgenic Grafting could be explained away as mutation, and the character might even gain sanctioning. It also helps that the RT over this Archmilitant is an ally of a radical Inquisitor of the Ordos Xenos - that's actually where the option to get this Acquisition might come from.
Manunancy said:
Considering the pile of abilities tucked into ork genome, there's a very good chance for the graft to bring in some unwanted bagage. The generics involved are way beyond the Imperium knowldege. It would be akin to juggling with grenades : it's impressive, but the risk of accidents is very high.
Though at least he's not planning on acquiring tyranid genes. That one would be juggling with grenades afer removing the safety pin....
Transgenic Grafting already has rules that cover a botched application. Assuming that the Forbidden Lore (Xenos) and Medicae Tests are successful, there's no unwanted baggage beyond some Insanity Points. If either is unsuccessful, that's where a freak result can occur.
HappyDaze said:
Manunancy said:
Considering the pile of abilities tucked into ork genome, there's a very good chance for the graft to bring in some unwanted bagage. The generics involved are way beyond the Imperium knowldege. It would be akin to juggling with grenades : it's impressive, but the risk of accidents is very high.
Though at least he's not planning on acquiring tyranid genes. That one would be juggling with grenades afer removing the safety pin....
Transgenic Grafting already has rules that cover a botched application. Assuming that the Forbidden Lore (Xenos) and Medicae Tests are successful, there's no unwanted baggage beyond some Insanity Points. If either is unsuccessful, that's where a freak result can occur.
Is there some sort of modifier depending on where the genes come from ? I'd think that all genomes aren't equal when it comes to picking only the bits you want from them.
The Transgenic Grafting rules in Ascension is much like the rest of Ascension, a decent idea poorly executed. The sections of something that should be complicated and covered in depth is like 2 columns of a single page in the book. Even the Inquisitor's Handbooks crafting rules took up more space. I think even the cybernetic surgery section of the core rule book may be longer.
I added a few additional rules of my own. Primarily on how Transgenic Grafting works. First, the surgery must be performed for each BODY LOCATION affected. So in order to give e character the unnatural strength of a kroot, the muslce grafting would have to be done to each leg, each arm, and the torso at least to truly have Unnatural Strenght (x2). Otherwise it would be a conditional modifier, such as Unnatural Strength (x2) Right Arm only.
Next, the area the operation is being conducted on (right arm, right leg, and so on) suffers a CRITICAL effect equal to the degree of failures cumulated.
You would also have to worry about body rejection, mutations andother side effects. I would not be hesitant to apply penalties to Fellowship, Willpower and Toughness after a grafting, perhaps -1D5 to each on a failed TOUGHNESS test (test for each characteristic individually).
I do think Trangenic Grafting could be a fun way to build interesting foes and NPCs, but would caution PCs away from it.
I would, in the case of Ork grafts, give a chance for sporing to become an issue.
Peacekeeper_b said:
The Transgenic Grafting rules in Ascension is much like the rest of Ascension, a decent idea poorly executed. The sections of something that should be complicated and covered in depth is like 2 columns of a single page in the book. Even the Inquisitor's Handbooks crafting rules took up more space. I think even the cybernetic surgery section of the core rule book may be longer.
I added a few additional rules of my own. Primarily on how Transgenic Grafting works. First, the surgery must be performed for each BODY LOCATION affected. So in order to give e character the unnatural strength of a kroot, the muslce grafting would have to be done to each leg, each arm, and the torso at least to truly have Unnatural Strenght (x2). Otherwise it would be a conditional modifier, such as Unnatural Strength (x2) Right Arm only.
Next, the area the operation is being conducted on (right arm, right leg, and so on) suffers a CRITICAL effect equal to the degree of failures cumulated.
You would also have to worry about body rejection, mutations andother side effects. I would not be hesitant to apply penalties to Fellowship, Willpower and Toughness after a grafting, perhaps -1D5 to each on a failed TOUGHNESS test (test for each characteristic individually).
I do think Trangenic Grafting could be a fun way to build interesting foes and NPCs, but would caution PCs away from it.
You do know that Transgenic Grafting is from The Radical's Handbook and not Ascension, right?
And thanks again for showing that many of posters here believe in sticking it to the players harder than the rules intend. GM dickery is alive and well on the FFG forums, and suckles heartily from the teat of Peacekeeper_b...
I'm quite dubious about a rule that make it as easy to pilfer something like a dog's sense of smell (quite close to human genome and little chances for truly weird problems) or picking an unnatural characteristic from tyranid genome (a truly risky procedure as the tyranid's genome is poorly understood at best).
The more powerfull th effects and the more exotic the source, the highr the chance for problems doesn't strike me as being unfair or attempting to screw the players.
HappyDaze said:
Peacekeeper_b said:
The Transgenic Grafting rules in Ascension is much like the rest of Ascension, a decent idea poorly executed. The sections of something that should be complicated and covered in depth is like 2 columns of a single page in the book. Even the Inquisitor's Handbooks crafting rules took up more space. I think even the cybernetic surgery section of the core rule book may be longer.
I added a few additional rules of my own. Primarily on how Transgenic Grafting works. First, the surgery must be performed for each BODY LOCATION affected. So in order to give e character the unnatural strength of a kroot, the muslce grafting would have to be done to each leg, each arm, and the torso at least to truly have Unnatural Strenght (x2). Otherwise it would be a conditional modifier, such as Unnatural Strength (x2) Right Arm only.
Next, the area the operation is being conducted on (right arm, right leg, and so on) suffers a CRITICAL effect equal to the degree of failures cumulated.
You would also have to worry about body rejection, mutations andother side effects. I would not be hesitant to apply penalties to Fellowship, Willpower and Toughness after a grafting, perhaps -1D5 to each on a failed TOUGHNESS test (test for each characteristic individually).
I do think Trangenic Grafting could be a fun way to build interesting foes and NPCs, but would caution PCs away from it.
You do know that Transgenic Grafting is from The Radical's Handbook and not Ascension, right?
And thanks again for showing that many of posters here believe in sticking it to the players harder than the rules intend. GM dickery is alive and well on the FFG forums, and suckles heartily from the teat of Peacekeeper_b...
My apologies. I rattled my sabre at Ascension, and I was wrong.
And I dont see how my alterations to the rule is anything near GM dickery. First and foremost, none of the PCs who had been in any of my games would use this and secondly, I think there should be huge consequences when splicing your DNA with a xeno beast.
And if you think I stick it hard to my players, you are quite wrong. I run my games with the notion in mind that the PCs are the stars and therefore they get away with a lot more then they should, but the graver the consequences and dangers the greater the heroics.
And while your comment on Ascension and Radicals is correct (I do have a lot of animosity toward Ascensions "advanced" characters it seems) I do not appreciate the way the last line reads, of course being the internet it could be sarcasm, a friendly jibe or a insult.
Anyway, thanks for correcting my error.
Hi! On the topic how difficult it should be to get a working transgenic craft based on were it comes from, I´m with peacekeeper. And this say much, since I worked on a loophole for female Space Marines (or would that be Space Marinas?)
in my games (as a plot device, not for the players) and my RT´s Retribution class ship has Eldar tech in it., but I always stay within the WH universe. I push the borders, but I do not break them overly much. The Imperium sees the human form as holy, so you can only alter to an extent. Some things, like better smell, would not be problematic, since it does not alter the form much and is something you can get in different ways. But "perks" you need Nid-DNA for, are way out there, so there has to be a serious risk involved.
ItsUncertainWho said:
I would, in the case of Ork grafts, give a chance for sporing to become an issue.
ItsUncertainWho said:
I would, in the case of Ork grafts, give a chance for sporing to become an issue.
I'd be trating the whole thing like I pretty much treat any biological implant, be it voidskin, vat grown muscle, whatever. Characters who get these implants also get things like vials of a greenish goop flesh stapled nearby, tubes pumping anti-rejection elxirs into the bloodstream, punk/purple inflammation around the site. In the case of Ork tissue, possibly follow on operations every now and then to remove the cancerous growths that are dead budded ork spores.
Hell, the astropath character in my game has taken to wearing pink and red silks with matching makeup in order to match the colours of her inflammed tissue around her implants. Used it as a justification of buying up fellowship - she's colour coordinated!
Peacekeeper_b said:
HappyDaze said:
Peacekeeper_b said:
The Transgenic Grafting rules in Ascension is much like the rest of Ascension, a decent idea poorly executed. The sections of something that should be complicated and covered in depth is like 2 columns of a single page in the book. Even the Inquisitor's Handbooks crafting rules took up more space. I think even the cybernetic surgery section of the core rule book may be longer.
I added a few additional rules of my own. Primarily on how Transgenic Grafting works. First, the surgery must be performed for each BODY LOCATION affected. So in order to give e character the unnatural strength of a kroot, the muslce grafting would have to be done to each leg, each arm, and the torso at least to truly have Unnatural Strenght (x2). Otherwise it would be a conditional modifier, such as Unnatural Strength (x2) Right Arm only.
Next, the area the operation is being conducted on (right arm, right leg, and so on) suffers a CRITICAL effect equal to the degree of failures cumulated.
You would also have to worry about body rejection, mutations andother side effects. I would not be hesitant to apply penalties to Fellowship, Willpower and Toughness after a grafting, perhaps -1D5 to each on a failed TOUGHNESS test (test for each characteristic individually).
I do think Trangenic Grafting could be a fun way to build interesting foes and NPCs, but would caution PCs away from it.
You do know that Transgenic Grafting is from The Radical's Handbook and not Ascension, right?
And thanks again for showing that many of posters here believe in sticking it to the players harder than the rules intend. GM dickery is alive and well on the FFG forums, and suckles heartily from the teat of Peacekeeper_b...
My apologies. I rattled my sabre at Ascension, and I was wrong.
And I dont see how my alterations to the rule is anything near GM dickery. First and foremost, none of the PCs who had been in any of my games would use this and secondly, I think there should be huge consequences when splicing your DNA with a xeno beast.
And if you think I stick it hard to my players, you are quite wrong. I run my games with the notion in mind that the PCs are the stars and therefore they get away with a lot more then they should, but the graver the consequences and dangers the greater the heroics.
And while your comment on Ascension and Radicals is correct (I do have a lot of animosity toward Ascensions "advanced" characters it seems) I do not appreciate the way the last line reads, of course being the internet it could be sarcasm, a friendly jibe or a insult.
Anyway, thanks for correcting my error.
It's not an insult, but rather my lack of appreciation for the general consensus on how things should be run in games of these lines. Don't take it personally - it seems you're in the majority around here. I consider it GM dickery to pile on negative mechanical consequences beyond what the game is written to include. I agree on the fluff issues since that's largely GM and campaign specific, but the game rules are already covered and making them less player-friendly just screams of dickery. It's like the time I saw a dickheaded DH GM required that any ranged SP weapons used in the left hand have a modifed ejection system (costing extra Thrones) so the casings were directed away from the user (he had determined that being right-handed was the Imperial standard and that all such weapons defaulted to throwing casings out to the right) or else the user suffered extra penalties.
I do understand not liking Ascension. I only got through the first third of the book before I put it back on my shelf in distaste for how it was handling things. I recently picked it up and noted that many of the pages in the back half of the book still cling together at the edges because I never read that far...
HappyDaze said:
Peacekeeper_b said:
HappyDaze said:
Peacekeeper_b said:
The Transgenic Grafting rules in Ascension is much like the rest of Ascension, a decent idea poorly executed. The sections of something that should be complicated and covered in depth is like 2 columns of a single page in the book. Even the Inquisitor's Handbooks crafting rules took up more space. I think even the cybernetic surgery section of the core rule book may be longer.
I added a few additional rules of my own. Primarily on how Transgenic Grafting works. First, the surgery must be performed for each BODY LOCATION affected. So in order to give e character the unnatural strength of a kroot, the muslce grafting would have to be done to each leg, each arm, and the torso at least to truly have Unnatural Strenght (x2). Otherwise it would be a conditional modifier, such as Unnatural Strength (x2) Right Arm only.
Next, the area the operation is being conducted on (right arm, right leg, and so on) suffers a CRITICAL effect equal to the degree of failures cumulated.
You would also have to worry about body rejection, mutations andother side effects. I would not be hesitant to apply penalties to Fellowship, Willpower and Toughness after a grafting, perhaps -1D5 to each on a failed TOUGHNESS test (test for each characteristic individually).
I do think Trangenic Grafting could be a fun way to build interesting foes and NPCs, but would caution PCs away from it.
You do know that Transgenic Grafting is from The Radical's Handbook and not Ascension, right?
And thanks again for showing that many of posters here believe in sticking it to the players harder than the rules intend. GM dickery is alive and well on the FFG forums, and suckles heartily from the teat of Peacekeeper_b...
My apologies. I rattled my sabre at Ascension, and I was wrong.
And I dont see how my alterations to the rule is anything near GM dickery. First and foremost, none of the PCs who had been in any of my games would use this and secondly, I think there should be huge consequences when splicing your DNA with a xeno beast.
And if you think I stick it hard to my players, you are quite wrong. I run my games with the notion in mind that the PCs are the stars and therefore they get away with a lot more then they should, but the graver the consequences and dangers the greater the heroics.
And while your comment on Ascension and Radicals is correct (I do have a lot of animosity toward Ascensions "advanced" characters it seems) I do not appreciate the way the last line reads, of course being the internet it could be sarcasm, a friendly jibe or a insult.
Anyway, thanks for correcting my error.
It's not an insult, but rather my lack of appreciation for the general consensus on how things should be run in games of these lines. Don't take it personally - it seems you're in the majority around here. I consider it GM dickery to pile on negative mechanical consequences beyond what the game is written to include. I agree on the fluff issues since that's largely GM and campaign specific, but the game rules are already covered and making them less player-friendly just screams of dickery. It's like the time I saw a dickheaded DH GM required that any ranged SP weapons used in the left hand have a modifed ejection system (costing extra Thrones) so the casings were directed away from the user (he had determined that being right-handed was the Imperial standard and that all such weapons defaulted to throwing casings out to the right) or else the user suffered extra penalties.
I do understand not liking Ascension. I only got through the first third of the book before I put it back on my shelf in distaste for how it was handling things. I recently picked it up and noted that many of the pages in the back half of the book still cling together at the edges because I never read that far...
Thats just silly. Even today we have brass deflectors for left handed firers, cost maybe $1.95 and fits rignt onto the rifle. Plus, the only real annoyance is its more likely to get a shell on you then if you fire it right handed. That being said, just being to someones right side as they fire a "SP" causes the same issue (I received a serious burn under my left eye once when I caught a ejected casing from a firer on the left inbetween my cheek and my eye protection.)
Ascension has some good stuff, just not the advanced character rules.
Peacekeeper_b said:
Thats just silly. Even today we have brass deflectors for left handed firers, cost maybe $1.95 and fits rignt onto the rifle. Plus, the only real annoyance is its more likely to get a shell on you then if you fire it right handed. That being said, just being to someones right side as they fire a "SP" causes the same issue (I received a serious burn under my left eye once when I caught a ejected casing from a firer on the left inbetween my cheek and my eye protection.)
Ascension has some good stuff, just not the advanced character rules.
Some 'crackpot' radical Magos Genetor might say the same regarding the complications you've suggested adding for Transgenic Grafting.
HappyDaze said:
Peacekeeper_b said:
Thats just silly. Even today we have brass deflectors for left handed firers, cost maybe $1.95 and fits rignt onto the rifle. Plus, the only real annoyance is its more likely to get a shell on you then if you fire it right handed. That being said, just being to someones right side as they fire a "SP" causes the same issue (I received a serious burn under my left eye once when I caught a ejected casing from a firer on the left inbetween my cheek and my eye protection.)
Ascension has some good stuff, just not the advanced character rules.
Some 'crackpot' radical Magos Genetor might say the same regarding the complications you've suggested adding for Transgenic Grafting.
Silly crackpots
I would think that the nature of Ork dna would make it very dangerous to transfer. If a single ork spore can evolve into an entire society given time, I would think its a possibility that your target character might actually become an ork eventually.
Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:
I would think that the nature of Ork dna would make it very dangerous to transfer. If a single ork spore can evolve into an entire society given time, I would think its a possibility that your target character might actually become an ork eventually.
I think that's highly unlikely - the transgenic grafting process doesn't go that far. However, that's not to say that the character couldn't shed spores of his own and be the source of an Orkish infestation. Of course, there's a pretty good chance that the spores the genetic hybrid character sheds are non-viable.
HappyDaze said:
However, that's not to say that the character couldn't shed spores of his own and be the source of an Orkish infestation. Of course, there's a pretty good chance that the spores the genetic hybrid character sheds are non-viable.
I think an ork graft should cause spores, but the spores are wrong somehow. The products of the spores know the 'Boss' isn't right and actually spend all their effort and time attacking him. They are unusually cunning and will wait for their numbers to build up and attack at the most opportune time.
Maybe an attack force of 2d10 Grots, 1d5 Squigs, and 1d5 Gretchin will show up every 6-9 months unless extreme care is taken by the crew in dealing with the spore cleanup.
ItsUncertainWho said:
Maybe an attack force of 2d10 Grots, 1d5 Squigs, and 1d5 Gretchin will show up every 6-9 months unless extreme care is taken by the crew in dealing with the spore cleanup.
Grots are the same as Gretchin, just different names for the same thing. I think you are thinking of Snotlings.
Interesting side effects could just be very simple enviromental changes. Strange mosses and mold growing in the characters quarters. Disturbing musk eminating fromthe character. Perhaps a hybrid contagious disease or virus, the Ork Flu!
MILLANDSON said:
Grots are the same as Gretchin, just different names for the same thing. I think you are thinking of Snotlings.
Yup, I did mean Snotlings.