A player of mine asked a question, I can't seem to answer.

It's regarding the "discount" you get as human, and then swapping between 2 or more careers.

It's given that humans can change careers for zero advances, if they're "perfect" matches.

It also states that your previous career(s?) are considered perfect matches, thus costing zero for humans.

So...:

- Can you pick a career, then buy 2-3 advances here, and change to another one, buy some there, then go back buy some in the first one, and keep switching between till you finally finish both? And if so, can you do this from day to day? Scene to scene? And thus changing your career talent constantly?

- How "deep" back can you go? Are all your old careers considered previous? Are compleeted careers considered previous? And if so, could you keep changing careers that had 3 traits in common (thus paying 0 advances), till you finally end up at one you want?

- Can you as a wizard, for example, pick soldier (or whatever...), pay the cost, and then "shop" through whatever skills/etc... soldier has, then change to another that has soldiers perfect match (for zero advances), and finally when you're done, go back to wizard? Or switch to soldier, buy advances, then go back to wizard (for "order" slot), then when you get new advances, go back to solider and buy more, then switch back to wizard?

To me the above scenarios would kinda make "non-career" advances worthless to pick for humans, as they could just circulate through careers.

I realize I as GM could say no to this, if I found it gamey (and also demand he found a trainer for the careers he wanted to enter/re-enter), and my player also mainly asked it as a retorical question. But it would be nice to be able to shut this "loop-hole" with a written rule.

to get a free Career change, a human would need 3 common Traits between those Careers (4-3=1, minimum 1, then Adaptable reduces the cost by 1, can be reduce to 0). So the Wizard -> Solider can't really be if you want it for free (4-1=3, Adaptable-1 =2)

But you move around Careers with 3 common traits easily (GM will most likely veto it)

The most comes from finishing a Career and moving on to a new one with only 2 common Traits, costing 0 : Dedication bonus reduces the switch cost by 1 (minimum 1 still, 4-2=2, Dedication -1 =1) then Adaptable makes it 0.

The "free" changes allowed when you move back to a Career you already had is when you finished it if i remember, but i may be wrong (to allow easier transition with a new Career) or because you already paid the cost and don't have to again.

Don't apply those rules by the letter though without story backing, you want to justify things (background character adventures/play, etc.). Let's not play DD and pick 10 Prestige classes just because, to ultra min max crap land

Spivo said:

The rules are not written to be "the Bible" like there are for DD. You must not apply them blindly, they keep writing it around inside the books.

The loop-hole you mention is not one unless you play blindly. It is MEANT to give a benefit to humans in the matter of switching Career (vs non-humans) representing the versatility of the race, NOT to just move around Career playing DD's Character Optimization board game (building level 20 characters with like 10 Prestige Classes, stupidity incarnate -> my own comment/though, sorry if i offend).

Cwell2101 said:

Soldier would fit very well, if you wanted your wizard to be martial, while keepng your order talent, and keep progressing as wizard.

Paying 2 advances is little compred to the skills/stats you get access to for lower cost, compared to non-career advances.

The question is somewhat retorical, as I'd never allow gamey behavior, but it's allways better to say the rules don't allow, than be an anoying GM.

Previous career is not described as one you have finished btw.

And remember, for some characters it would be fitting. You could easially have a character that switch between two careers, due to background (Soldier/Smuggler, Sigmar Priest/Witch Hunter, etc...) thus being whatever career that fits his current goals. Kinda like Indianna Jones, he's a Scholar most of the time, but once a while he becomes a Grave Robber, (couldn't find a more fitting career sadly...) and then switches back when done.

I realized this "loophole" a while back and could have sworn I made a thread about it, but I can't seem to find it... Oh well.

If an unscrupelous player gets to run rampant with this, it can lead to some weird situations. There are after all no rules for when you can switch careers, since it's assumed you only switch careers when you spend advances. But for someone who can switch for free, there's no rule saying he can't switch at any moment. So, you're a Messenger and need the Burgher career ability for soemthing? No problem, just skip on over into the Burgher career, use the Burgher career card and skip back.

And taking it even further: Seeing as it's zero cost to jump from one careeer with three matching traits to another, it's zero cost to jump from that career to yet another career with three traits matching your new career right? So, say you're Commoner (Basic, Menial, Rural, Social) and you want to become a Dilettante (Academic, Basic, Social Specialist):

Commoner -> Performer -> Student -> Dilettante

You've just made a major change in your career type within seconds and without paying a single advance point.

The only thing stopping players from pulling this stunt is the GM. So just be aware of the possibility of this and be ready to say "no" before some sneaky player takes it too far

Okay, so it's as I feared, no boundaries to stop this.

Guess it's just GM that can stop this behavior.

Let's say the halfling, Peck Cobblerbottom, offers Johan Aflingfreund two free pies every Festag to compensate Johan's valorous deeds in service of the wee folk. This offer is, however, not extended to Johan's traveling companions, Wilhelm the Helmeted, or Helmut Wilhelmsson. For any of the party to get a Cobblerbottom pie on Festag they have to go to the Cobblerbottom pie cart. Johan's pies are free when he arrives to take advantage of his deal with Peck, and Wilhelm and Helmut can choose to purchase pies, or not purchase pies, or try to pilfer pies, as they see fit. Just because Johan's pies are free does not mean that he can make them magically appear in his hands whenever he'd like (barring magic and pie delivery services).

I interpret the Experience, Advancement, and Career Transition rules like this:

To use the Adaptable racial ability, you have to be at a point when you can spend advances; after a session is over (Core, pg. 34), or during campaign downtime (ToA, pg. 37). This means a character, even a Reiklander, can only change careers at these two instances. The GM may require players seek training for spending Advances on Advancement Options and Career Transitions or allow it immediately if it makes sense in the context of the story. Any career the character has spent Advances in, thus has a character sheet for, is considered a Compatible Career, and costs 1 Advance to enter, 0 for Reiklanders (Core, pg. 37-8).

Humans are supposed to be Adaptable to the varying perilous conditions of the Old World, be it befriending halflings, pilfering pies, or taking a blow to the head.

I've house ruled "Only one career change per interlude", though.

Common and dramatic sense applies.

-Thorvid

Thanks for finding those references so that rule addict players can stop themselves from poking their GM mercilessly