Hi,

I havent play for a while now and I have a couple of questions:

1. Deepwood Mercenary. Response: After Deepwood Mercenary is declared as an attacker or defender, choose and discard 1 attachment from any other participating character. - I guess his ability is useless in attack since after he is declared there are no opponents participating chars in that challange so he could only discard some bad attachments from my chars.

2. Vipers immunity to char abilities makes him immune to Maester of Suns save?

3. Narrow Escape puts into play all chars, so my opponents too right?

4. Ser Mandon Moores ability counts as the only one card i can bring out of shadows, right?

Rozy said:

Correct.

Rozy said:

Hmm, save is to interrupt killing or discarding, so I'm not sure.

Rozy said:

Yep.

Rozy said:

The game rules allow each player to bring 1
card out of Shadows at the beginning of each
phase. Card effects that bring cards out of
Shadows at any other time are not restricted by
this allowance.

Rogue30 said:

Rogue30 said:

ad 4, I have found only this in rules:

At the beginning of the any phase, a card that is in Shadows can come
out of Shadows and into play at the discretion of the player controlling
the card. Each player has the option of bringing one card out of his or
her Shadows area each phase.

And from this it seemed to me that if I bring one card at the beggining fo challenge phase, Mandor would be already the second that phase thus not allowed...

Check the FAQ:

(4.17) Bringing a Card Out of Shadows
The game rules allow each player to bring 1
card out of Shadows at the beginning of each
phase. Card effects that bring cards out of
Shadows at any other time are not restricted by
this allowance.

ktom said:

Grammatically there is no doubt.

Save responses are special effects that interrupt
and prevent the killing or discarding of a card in
play.

So saves can be treated consistent with cancels. Save effect doesn't apply to Viper, it works on killing effect. That's why Rozy asked.

So TRV can be saved with a "Save a character..." effect?

Mathias Fricot said:

No.

Rogue30 said:

I understand why he asked. But there is a difference.

The definition of saves (as you quoted):

Save responses are special effects that interrupt
and prevent the killing or discarding of a card in
play. However, any costs of the killing/discarding
action must still be paid.

The definition of cancels:

Cancel responses are special effects that interrupt
an action and prevent its effects from resolving.
However, any costs of the canceled action
must still be paid.

Notice the difference? Cancels stop the effect from resolving. Saves stop the card from being killed or discarded, not the killing/discarding effect from happening. So you're right; grammatically there is no doubt. It's right there in the definitions. Saves work on the object of the effect being interrupted ("prevent the killing or discarding of a card") while cancels work on the actual effect being interrupted ("prevent [the action's] effects from resolving"). The timing of saves and cancels is the same, but the objects of their actions are not.

Since saves work on the card being saved, they do not fall outside the scope of immunity (the way that triggered effects originating on immune cards do).

ktom said:

Yeah, it's more visible during Valar. I didn't think about it.

Rogue30 said:

So TRV cannot be saved. Good to know.

Mathias Fricot said:

Well, of course he can, just not with character abilities or events.