Note: I'm not sure this is necessary....

Background:
(Antistones' conclusive post IMO)

The FAQ says that fatigue may be spend to add power dice, and then the overlord *may* play a Dodge card after all dice have been rolled. I think the best way to read this is that the opportunity to play a Dodge card occurs after the last opportunity to spend fatigue to add dice: that is, if you declare you're done adding dice and ask the overlord if he wants to Dodge, and he says "no", you *still* can't add any more dice, even though he *didn't* play the Dodge card. The reason you can't add more dice is because of the sequence, not because the card was played.

But we also know that the opportunity to play a Dodge card must occur * before* you reroll your dice due to an aim order, because an aim and a dodge cancel out; once you've made the aim re-roll, it is no longer possible for the attack to be dodged, and therefore it is no longer possible to play a Dodge card.

So we know that your last chance to spend fatigue comes before the overlord's chance to play a Dodge, and the overlord's chance to play a Dodge comes before you reroll the dice due to an aim. Therefore, *you can't spend fatigue to add dice after using an aim to re-roll*. Any other conclusion leads to a contradiction.

Question
Q. Can extra power dice be added (with fatigue or threat in an outdoor encounter) to an attack after an Aim reroll?
A1. No. Once the dice have been rerolled by an Aim, no more power dice may be added.
A2. Yes. You may add extra dice after an Aim reroll. These dice may not be rerolled though - the Aim has finished already.
A3. Yes. You may add extra dice after an Aim reroll and these dice may even be rerolled.

Certainly, if the answer isn't A1, I'd say we need a follow-on about how it interacts with a Dodge card.

Have there been debates about this that I somehow missed? My understanding from reading the rulebook was that A1 is the only way this can work. For a FAQ ruling to claim A2 or A3 they would have to completely redefine the timing of re-rolls. At least for dodging and aiming (on both sides), and likely for any re-roll effect, just to be thorough about it.

I can certainly understand newbies getting confused, and I can even believe whiney rules mongers trying to argue for A2 or A3 in an effort to make things go the way they want (although I have not witnessed such in the forums recently.) But as far as the rules as written go, this is one of the more clearly written parts of the rulebook, IMHO.

I'm not sure what inspired you to add the thread, but this particular question sounds like exactly the sort of thing this sub-forum was intended to weed out in order to clear the way for less easily resolved questions.

My group has always played A3. It's the least confusing, and the most empowering for both players, which makes it more fun.

The list of attack steps has always been a good suggestion, but periodically breaks when interacted with certain mechanics. This might be such a case.

-pw

Steve-O said:

There was a debate in September that you participated in , in which Parathion was vehemently arguing this needed clarification (and, IIRC, asking me to apologize for suggesting otherwise) for reasons that never made any sense to me.

phelanward said:

The one with overlapping and repeating steps, more possible outcomes, and a potential game of chicken between the hero and overlord to see which of them is going to give up advantage by declaring their action first is the least confusing?

No, I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong about that.

Do you play that Dodge also works that way, in contradiction of the current FAQ, or do you have some weird hybrid system in order to be even more confusing?

Steve-O said:

Dodge and Aim could work very differently. There is no reason they should follow the same rules - an Aim is always in play before any dice are rolled and a dodge is often played only after dice is rolled, so there are significant differences there for a start.

I don't think there is anything anywhere in the rules that clearly shows how adding dice to an Aimed attack works. I think Antistones' argument about timing, that I used as the background, shows that logically A1 is the answer. However that answer is derived by referencing with the Dodge mechanic, and given that the two mechanics already have a significant difference, not everyone will use the one to figure out the other.

Certainly until I read Antistone's argument I was comfortable with an A2 answer as being reasonable - comfortable enough to not make an effort to sort this out (most of my gaming is ACs, so it is effectively the same for both sides whichever way you call it). "These are the attack dice, it is aimed, so you can reroll them, if you add extra dice before the reroll you can reroll them too, if you add more after you can't reroll them because the Aim has already been resolved." You can after all add extra dice after rolling which technically includes after rerolling too.

Some items in ToI allow the heros to reroll "one single die" for an attack. There is no explanation about how this interacts with adding power dice, nor with aim nor doge. It could be asked in the same question.

Say you use a weapon that allows you to reroll a die. You reroll the green die. Then the overlord uses "doge" and forces you to reroll the green die (again). Since you used the weapon special feature to reroll that die, can you roll this die (for the 4th time in the same attack)? What about black dice? Can you use the weapon feature to reroll a black die you have added by using fatige?

The re-roll ability on these cards has already been covered by the FAQ.