Can free action focus power rolls be made in the same turn as full and half action attacks?

I think they can, for the following reasons.

Page 188 of the core book says that you cannot take hte same half action twice.

Page 9 of the errata says: "Making a focus power action is the psychic equivalent of a standard attack action, and counts as such for the purposes of determining what else a psyker can do in a round. Therefore a psyker who uses a half action power cannot make another half action standard attack on the same round. A psyker may manifest only one ability per round with the exception of the resist posession power. A psyker is required to roll at least one die to manifest an ability."

The use of "therefore" implies (to me, at least) that the reason that you can't make a half action focus power and half action attack the same turn is because of the stipulation on page 188 of the core book that you can't make the same half action twice (and because half action attacks are "equivalent" to half action psychic powers). To me, this would still allow you to make free action focus power rolls the same turn as you make full action and half action attacks. Even though those free action focus power rolls are standard attack actions (as stated in page 9 of the errata), they can be taken the same turn as full action and half action attacks, since the stipulation against taking two of the same type of action in the same turn is limited to half actions.

There are also gameplay reasons I think free action focus power rolls are intended to be taken the same turn as fulll and half action attacks:

Firstly: Let's say I have WS 60 (As my psyker does), and want to kill an enemy (obviously). If i cast precognitive strike this turn, I have a 33% increased chance of hitting him (since with Precognitive strike I hit on anything below 80, and without it, I hit below 60.) This means that I increase average damage output by 33% (Yes, this is an abstraction/generalization, but there is no practical way for me to include every possible detail/weapon combo/situation, I'm just assuming that it will increase damage I deal (on average) by 33%.) However, with that damage increase comes a decrease, since I will only be hitting every other turn. So, my damage will increase by 50% as a result of that. This leaves me doing less damage than I would have if I didn't use precognitive strike. Of course, it lets me do something like run or hide or take a defensive stance on the turn i cast it, but those things aren't really valuable to me since I can already dodge/parry 3 times total and only have to roll under 70/80 to do that. So I odn't usually want to play defensively like that,/I usually go right into combat. and want to be able to attack the whole time. So, as far as I can tell, precognitive strike only benefits people whose weapon skill is horrible (if it means that you can't attack the round you cast it).

Secondly, Pyschic soldier (from Ascension) allows you to make focus power rolls for less "time" (half action becomes free action, full action becomes half action). This seems to me to indicate that you're supposed to use it to cast psychic powers on a turn that you are fighting.

Sorry this is so lengthy... I hope someone can explain where either me or my GM has gone wrong with this rule. (He says you can't make free action focus power rolls the same turn as any attacks, with the exception of the force weapon psychic power and resist possession.) I also hope this hasn't been answered already...I searched for it and couldn't find anything, but might have used the wrong search terms :/

Durrr, my title is retarded. It should read "free action focus power rolls: can they be taken the same turn as attack actions?"

Theres been a similar thread like this on the deathwatch boards (although it started off asking if multiple focus power actions can be made).

Personally, I'm not sure how to treat it in this case. Although one thing I would want to know, is if a full round attack (say full/semi/multi attacks), are equivalent to a standard attack for these purposes. Personally, i would say they are not. So in your case, I would be open to allowing multiple attacks, but maybe not a standard attack (using a pure RAW reading), which of course, implies that a single standard attack should be allowable.

The issue in deathwatch though, is the use of a weapon modification that allows the full auto action to be performed as a half action. Therefore, if a standard attack is not equal to full auto, means that a psyker could fire a heavy weapon on full auto, and focus power (even as a half action)

I always treated them as being different - a free action ability is a free action, otherwise you can end up creating weird situations like with Divine Shot. To reiterate, though I expect all know this, Divine Shot means you are allowed to make a shot that automatically hits the target, no matter what (barring "Lol i'm a vindicare"). Its a free action - if you have to wait to the next turn it becomes kind of.. Silly to use. I mean, its still great, but kind of silly to make it a free action when it cannot be ever taken advantage of.

So, tl;dr I treat free action focus powers as being different from a half action focus power - you can still only focus one psychic ability per round (barring Resist Possession), but a free action ability means that you may still attack after making that. Yes, precog strike and what not makes Psykers into daemons essentially, but your risking considerable backlash from using it that much, and you may not use your defensive abilities as a result. Once you hit ascension and ascension abilities come into play, well, everyones broken anyways.

I always treated them as being different - a free action ability is a free action, otherwise you can end up creating weird situations like with Divine Shot. To reiterate, though I expect all know this, Divine Shot means you are allowed to make a shot that automatically hits the target, no matter what (barring "Lol i'm a vindicare"). Its a free action - if you have to wait to the next turn it becomes kind of.. Silly to use. I mean, its still great, but kind of silly to make it a free action when it cannot be ever taken advantage of.

Oh, it can be taken advantage of - you just need to know what you want to shoot one round before you actually do. Take a look at your enemy, activate the power, move into cover. Next round, just poke your arm out of cover and shoot them. Quoting "No power in the 'verse can stop me" at that point is optional.

Other than that, the whole thing has been subject to debate for a long, long time. In general, though, I consider it easiest to lump every kind of attack (including standard attack, Full Auto, psychic powers that count as attacks and all) into one group of action just like Rogue Trader does. Out of those actions, you can take one per round, excepting the ballistic Mechadendrite reaction-attack. It cuts down a little on the sillyness of using a weapon-MIU, a psychic power, an autostabilized full auto weapon and yet another auto-stabilized semi-auto weapon. RT errata seems to indicate that this was the idea as well, noting that while the weapon MIU can attack as a free action, this still doesn't allow more than one attack action.

Thanks for the help guys. I'm still looking for something conclusive, obviously. I asked FFG through their rules question interface about a week ago and haven't heard from them. Does it usually take that long? Does anyone have experience with that?

I've had a reply in the inbox the same or next day every time I've submitted a rules question, possibly you mistyped your mail?

Cifer said:

I am not saying that the power stops itself from being used, its just a wonky way to do it. You get free action manifestation so you can run around all you want, but you cant attack that round, so all it does is let you spend a round repositioning (when you dont need to reposition in the first place, barring taking cover). Its more powerful to have it separated from the Attack action since you can use it every turn, but it just seems better... And it has its own inbuilt limitations.

Actually RT errata seperates free action psyker abilities from the Attack category. Its just before Chapter 9: Playing the Game, in the Actions errata. If you use a free-action psyker/navigator ability, you may still make use of Attack actions, you may just not manifest again that round.

Here's what FFG's rules guy told me:

"The simple answer is...yes. You can make a free action focus power roll the same turn as an attack."

He went on to say that it was sort of imba for me to be able to hit on anything under 80. I would sort of agree but as a melee focused ascension level sorcerer/primaris psyker, I would expect my character to be pretty good at some things.

Is your GM crazy... He is crazy, isnt he... tell him to STOP being crazy!!

Ok, here it is, to my knowledge:

-When manifesting the "Divine Shot" power, it is done in conjunction with shooting the gun (whether single shot or full auto), not after it. Shooting the gun & using the power become one action, thus they are done in the same turn. OTHERWISE there is NO point to having a "free action" focus power time. If this wasn't the case then the "Divine Shot" power would be effectively useless as it is not a sustainable power and doesn't specifically say that it works on the next shot you fire in the next round.

-The "Unnatural Aim" power on the other hand is used as your GM describes (needing to manifest in the first round and fire the weapon in the second round).

Quartermus said:

Awwww pants I didn't think of this. This makes it useful for full/semi auto and useless for single shot, unless you're willing to wait one round. This is as RAW isn't it? Dang.

I have got an answer from producer about free action psychic power.

Question: "Hello, I have a question which still pops on the forums and during a play. The errata says: "Making a Focus Power action is the psychic equivalent of a Standard Attack action, and counts as such for purposes of determining what else a psyker can do in a round. Therefore, a psyker who uses a Half action power cannot make another Half action Standard Attack on the same round." But what about free action psychic powers. Can you cast power and attack? If not powers like divine shot look useless. What about free action precognitive dodge power? Should you get bonuses in the same round you cast it or only in the next round? Thank you for any answer which will clear this out."

Answer:

Tim Huckelbery

RPG Producer

Fantasy Flight Games

" The goal was that you can't do a psychic power and an attack in the same turn, even if the power is a Free Action one . You can still Divine Right, but it will kick in for your next shot. Precog Dodge happens immediately and lasts till the end of your next turn. Hope this helps clarify things (let me know if not)."

So it doesn't matter if it is free action or not, you can't attack in the same turn .

hmmm I was sure I answered this thread...

anyway, you gotta do the divine shot and the shot that uses it in 2 separate turns.

it's like true strike in DnD