31. The Siren's Call

By Corbon, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark FAQ Update Discussions

Background:
When a figure rolls a surge and is affected by the Siren's special ability, it must Run at full speed towards the Siren and may not attack.
Much of the time the figure will move at least the last few spaces of it's movement in deep water spaces, which cost 2MP to enter. This means that sometimes the hero will have a spare MP that he cannot use to Run further toward the Siren (the hero may have started on the Revenge at 1MP/space or have an odd number of MP due to RoQuickness or a Feat). Heroes may also be close enough to the Siren that they end adjacent to the Siren with MP remaining.

What can a hero do with such extra MP? Drink a potion? Re-equip? Anything he wants except attack (and obviously move)? Nothing at all?

Question:
Q. If a hero who is Running towards the Siren due to the Siren's Call ability has spare MP left over at the end of his movement, can he use that MP for anything?
A1. Yes. The hero may drink potions, re-equip, or doing anything else he likes with his MP so long as he does not attack and is as close to the Siren as he can possibly get in this turn.
A2. No. The hero is only supposed to Run towards the siren unthinkingly, totally under the power of the Siren's Call.
A3. Something else?

Has it ever been clarified that a hero has to use non-base MP (i.e. those that do not come from 2 x his speed) to follow the call?

The ability basically only tells the hero to declare a Run action, use the most direct path to the Siren - and do it "as fast as possible" (?)

If any available MP has to be used, since it has to be done "as fast as possible", the hero could possibly be forced to spend fatigue for MP, straining even harder to get to that beauty. I know this has virtually no precedence but the ability is worded unclear enough.

So, probably the question could be reworded to clarify the ability itself, possibly including the question about the spare MP, if necessary.

On a related issue, is a hero who Ran towards the Siren allowed to receive and use a Guard attack via Leadership (and would Tahlia be allowed to move freely/away from the Siren when using the Guard)? In other words, how long does the restriction "may not attack" last?

Parathion said:

If any available MP has to be used, since it has to be done "as fast as possible", the hero could possibly be forced to spend fatigue for MP, straining even harder to get to that beauty. I know this has virtually no precedence but the ability is worded unclear enough.

I would definitely be in the "not forced to spend fatigue" camp, but it's a good point to have clarified. So that we have an official source to throw at newbies if nothing else.

Parathion said:

On a related issue, is a hero who Ran towards the Siren allowed to receive and use a Guard attack via Leadership (and would Tahlia be allowed to move freely/away from the Siren when using the Guard)? In other words, how long does the restriction "may not attack" last?

Also a good question.

Here's some more:

When a hero is forced to move toward the Siren "as fast a possible," does that mean he must follow the most direct route, or the route that gets him as close as possible? In theory, depending on the layout of the map, it may be possible to get closer to the Siren (by absolute value) by going the "long way" around certain obstacles. Which path is preferred by the Siren's ability?

If a hero player is forced to move toward the Siren and calculates in advance that the "fastest" route will leave him with spare MP (and assuming the answer to Corbon's question is that the hero is free to spend that MP doing stuff) then may the hero spend that MP prior to reaching the closest possible space to the Siren? This would allow (or disallow) throwing a piece of equipment to another hero as you run past, for example.

The ability itself says 'directly towards' so no need to ask that.

I don't think it needs clarification tfor 'non-base' MP either. Frankly there is no such distinction. so why make one up. The rules say you must Run (which tells you what action you must declare) as fast as possible (so any MP you acquire must be spend on movement, at least until you cannot move closer).

The 'may not attack' - for how long? I can see a case for though I don't see it being worth asking myself. IMO it is just this the hero's turn - it does not mention ' until the start of the next turn' or anything else, and 'this turn' must surely be the default.Consequently a Guard attack from leadership would not be restricted by RAW, neither would Tahlia's moving away during a Guard.

I don't think it is worth asking about being forced to spend fatigue either - that is asking to open up far to big a can of worms!

I do think that whether a hero can spend his 'extra' MP that he won't be using for Siren-called movement on other things is worthwhile though.

Hm, "directly towards" still could be ambiguous - there may be several paths of the exact same length towards the Siren, which all could equally be regarded as "directly towards" the Siren. Yet there may be different consequences connected with each path, so it matters who decides the exact path (e.g. moving through Shallow or Deep Water spaces).

Parathion said:

Hm, "directly towards" still could be ambiguous - there may be several paths of the exact same length towards the Siren, which all could equally be regarded as "directly towards" the Siren. Yet there may be different consequences connected with each path, so it matters who decides the exact path (e.g. moving through Shallow or Deep Water spaces).

The hero of course - it's his turn, his figure, his action and he is still following the rule. Still don't see anything needed here... ?

It is not his action, it is forced upon him by the Call, even the direction is forced upon him by the current position of the Siren. Why would he be allowed to make micro decisions within that frame? Clearly he is under some kind of control of the Siren.

Parathion said:

It is not his action, it is forced upon him by the Call, even the direction is forced upon him by the current position of the Siren. Why would he be allowed to make micro decisions within that frame? Clearly he is under some kind of control of the Siren.

It explicitly is his action - he must declare a run action.
There is no reason to assume it is not under his 'control', provide he remains within the parameters. The Siren hasn't taken control of the hero, merely subverted the hero's desires/instincts and replaced them with other desires/instincts - the hero is in 'control', just with a different focus.

I'll repeat - as long as the hero, who is explicitly taking an action with his own figure during his own turn, takes a path that is 'directly towards' the Siren then he has followed the rule.
There is nothing in the rule, except dubious thematics, to indicate that the OL could or should control the figure. So why invent a problem unnecessarily?

This is a bit different from the pit-pull question, where the pit pulls figures from both sides and isn't clearly controlled by either side.

I can see and accept your argument.

By some extension of your logic, the pit-pull moves are controlled by the OL, since they happen on the OL´s turn, don´t they?

Parathion said:

I can see and accept your argument.

By some extension of your logic, the pit-pull moves are controlled by the OL, since they happen on the OL´s turn, don´t they?

Maybe.
The pit pull is at the start of the OLs turn, yes (much like, for example the roof collapsing rolls on one SoB level with a Spider Boss). But it is a single space for all figures (both sides) and clearly not any particular figure's 'action'. It is clearly a scenario effect, rather than a player action. We genuinely couldn't figure out how to choose it when we did that level, and it made quite a difference (eg for anti-spawn placement).
I think the pit-pull is much more analogous to wind/currrent movement than Siren's call.