I've tried to gather solid intel on what a Deathwatch librarian's armour would look like.

As we all know, when a marine enters the service in DW, his armour is painted black apart from the left arm and both pauldrons. The right pauldron is sporting the original chapter insignia while the left one is inscribed with the DW symbol. So far so good.

As per the Codex Astartes, a librarian's armour is blue, regardless of his chapter's colours, to differentiate him from the others. His left pauldron sport the chapter symbol while his right one bears the Librarian symbol. Right.

So what happens when a librarian enters the service of the Deathwatch?
Deathwatch pauldron to the left, Librarian pauldron to the right, Chapter symbol... lacking?
Paint the armour black... or keep it blue as per the codex?

Is there an expert in the house that can help me with this?

To my knowledge there is no "real" answer here.

I would just go with the images in the Deathwatch book, which I'm sure you can find easily.

When a Space Marine is seconded to the Deathwatch, he ritually repaints his armour black, leaving only his Chapter insignia unobscured. This is to ensure that the suit's machine spirit is not angered. The shoulder pad bearing the untouched symbol is then shifted to the right side and the ornate shoulderpad of the Deathwatch replaces it on the Marine's left shoulder, signifying to the enemies of mankind that the Marine serves the Deathwatch first and foremost whilst he is seconded to the Inquisition. The left arm of the Marine is also painted silver to match the Deathwatch pad. When the Marine returns to his chapter, he is allowed to bear the icon of the Deathwatch if he so wishes.

Going by the illustrations Apothecaries, Librarians and Techmarines have prominent parts of their armour painted in white, light blue and red respectively while the rest of armour is painted in black (plus silver parts).

Alex

In my opinion, I would paint some bit of them their "specialty" color (i.e. knee guards, maybe a shin guard, etc which looks good to the player).

I'd really just use the Specialty pictures to get an idea.

Thank you for your comments.

I'll go with the "highlighting option" as seen in the book.
But it still leaves a few questions.

Left shoulder=DW insignia. No problem
Right shoulder=Chapter or Librarian insignia? Either way, some "vital" part is left out.

And what happens if the librarian gets terminator honors? The crux terminatus is placed on the left shoulder (and the DW insignia is then placed on the right as per the book)

The reason I'm asking is that a really, really "by-the-book-kinda-guy" ultramarine librarian is going to make an appearance in my campain and I'd like for him to look the part without any room for the players to question that it's correct. (4 out of 5 players are genuine 40k geeks that know the canon verbatim. But me? Nah! I'we read my share of books and played the TT since Rogue Trader, but I'm kinda the "Screw the Codex" Space Wolf myself)

Blatifagus said:

Well, Terminator honours can be painted on the kneecap. Or a small Crux paintjob somewhere on the right shoulder. I guess there might be details about it in Rites of Battle as it will cover the Crux and other badges, I believe. If you want to be correct, you might consider suspending things until then.

Alex

Remember, the Crux Terminatus is normally only worn on the shoulder of marines in terminator armor. Those who are in Power Armor more typically wear a small CT emblem attached to a chain hanging from their belt or other suitable section of armor. For the termies, perhaps the DW has a modifies CT emblem with the Inquisitorial =I= added? Or, they still just wear the CT emblem hanging from a belt. I don't see either option as wrong.

E

Blatifagus said:

There are actually a number of variations, accepted by the Codex (and employed by the Ultramarines) on the standard heraldry - a selection of common variations are actually shown in Codex: Space Marines, often combining squad marking with chapter insignia on armour where the left shoulder pad is studded and thus can't accept any badge or emblem. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine, for example, an Ultramarines Librarian in the Deathwatch whose Chapter Badge is the Ultramarines emblem with a horned skull or open book in the middle signifying his status as an Librarian (similar to the practice of Ultramarines Sergeants wearing the Iron Skull honour - a red skull - in the middle of their Chapter Badge to show that they're Sergeants).

The (true) Crux Terminatus used as a shoulderpad on Tactical Dreadnought Armor (aka Terminator Armor) is said to contain a shard of the Emperor's own armor; these are incredibly rare and one of the many reasons most chapters have far less than the hundred suits called for by the Codex Astartes. The "by the book" Ultramarines had only something like 80 to 90 suits, chapter-wide, prior to the Tyrannid invasion.

Marines in power armor that have earned Terminator Honors display a badge or icon in the shape of a Crux Terminatus, usually as a pendant on a chain around the neck or hanging from the belt. Also, the Codex Astartes allows for an incredibly amount of flexibility in the personal heraldry of marines that have earned the prestige and honor to be allowed to display personal heraldry. I'd say, by the time a marine has done enough to earn Terminator Honors, they've long since earned the right to personal heraldry.

As for Deathwatch Terminators, which Games Workshop has yet to create unique models for, I'd take some cues from the Grey Knight Terminator display theit Chapter Badge on the shoulder typically used for the Crux Terminatus. The Terminator suits shown being worn by Inquistors typically have a Rosette (y'know, the =I= badge) displayed in that spot. My theory is that their service in/to the Emperor's Holy Inquisition takes precedence over display of Terminator Honors.

Remember, the amount of detail on mass produced and amature painted 28mm toy soldiers pales in comparrisson to the splendor and glory that "real" Astartes armor would have. We just cannot "see" the icons, hearldry, and markings.

There are as many correct answers to this question as there are librarians. Each Chapter has its own rules covering the appearance of its members. Marines seconded to Deathwatch retain a high level of individual chapter identity (much to the distress of newly formed killteams).

Overall I think the highlighting idea is the best one for "usual" Deathwatch. Feel free to do as you please however.

Dark

Thank you all for your very informative answers.
I humbly bow to your wisdom.

The Ultramarine Librarian that I will introduce to the players will have the Deathwatch left arm/shoulder, black power armour with deep blue highlightings, a crux terminatus pendant around his neck, the yellow (highly decorated) tabard and a right pauldron with an open book inside the "inverted omega". And ofcourse some extra bling like purity seals and the like.

I am pleased.

Thank you all for helping me on this.

Blatifagus said:

I would say the DW Left Shoulder Pad trumps Crux Terminatus. The Marine is allowed a "Chapter Trapping". Since the Crux is awarded by the chapter, that would certainly be appropriate (that the it and put it someplace else).

In my campaign, Armour is black, Left Shoulder is DW, Right Shoulder is Chapter - which in some cases includes additional trappings for Appothecaries / Tech marines / Librarians layed over the chapter colors. Additionally Appothecaries Helmts are white, Tech Marines are Red and Librarians are blue. They use the left knee pad to indicate chapter colors and the right to indicate their specialty / battle honors.

In the DW rulebook, there are some pictures of librarians in the powers section. Granted, they are all of libs in power armor, but hear me out. They have the standard DW left shoulder and arm pattern, and their librarian markings are on their chests and on the left legs, horned skulls and mighty tomes. That would work for terminators too, since it would leave the right knee pad for chapter identification and the right shoulder for the crux if you so wanted. Of course, by that time the character is able to have personal heraldry, so wherever they feel it should go would work for your game.

E

The Curx Terminatus is an honour badge, but it is a sacred one, thus, is displaces the Chapter Heraldry when in tactical dreadnaught armour. The Deathwatch Heraldry displaces the Chapter Heraldry, and thus the Crux Terminatus, the libararian symbol is usualy worn as a combigned device with the chapter heraldry, but it can also appear on the chest, or knees.

I just noticed a piece of artwork in the rulebook (p. 314) that shows a Stormwarden librarian blasting a bunch of orks with... smite or something.
Anyway... His left arm is clearly the ornate left arm of the Deathwatch and his right shoulder sport the chapter heraldry. His chest have the horned skull, but his armour looks blue? Or is it just lighting effects since the arm looks golden?

On a second note... I'm not really comfortable with the Crux Terminatus badge moving around. It's not just an honor badge, it's a holy relic with a piece of the Emperors armour. Not just some medal to flaunt. But that's for the actual Crux on the Tactical Dreadnaught Armour, not the simulacrum to wear on your regular suit, mind.

If a Deathwatch terminator armour is primed (which I'm partly sceptical about since the suits are something the chapters most likelly WONT lend to the DW concerning their scarcity/sanctity) I'd say that although the left arm/shoulder is ornamented and silverplated the Crux Terminatus is right there on the left shoulder and the Deathwatch heraldry sported on the chest (to leave the original Chapter heraldry untouched as per the regulations)

Blatifagus said:

Lexicanum:

"Sergeants, Captains and Librarians have different versions to identify their status. Those awarded with the Crux Terminatus often wear smaller versions when they fight in power armour, often hanging them from banners, weapons and belts. It is also usual for them to paint this symbol onto the knee or shin plates of their standard power armour."

I have checked WD 129 and confirm the last statement - although it might be outdated.

Furthermore:

"A Terminator captain is among the most highly skilled and experienced warriors humanity has ever produced. In recognition of their achievements, these Marines are allowed the honour of wearing a distinctive badge that incorporates fragments of the Emperor's armour."

Alex

ak-73 said:

Ah, I see. I've missed that only captains get the relic ones.

But still... All sources say that on the Terminator Armour the Crux Terminatus (be it the standard stone, silver or relic one) is located on the left shoulder .
While wearing his regular power armour, the marine is free to wear the symbol as a pendand, belt clasp, banner, paintjob, piercing or not at all as he please though.

For sure a Terminator Armour has the Crux as it contains the force field generator, most likely on the left shoulder. I assume Deathwatch iconograpgy can be seen all over the suit of armour instead. And yes I too assume that it a Watch Fortress has its own dedicated sets of PA. And actually the dewscription in the core rulebook claims that every suit of Terminator armour has a shard of the emperor's armour. Perhaps a bit overkill but okay. Especially since it would make it a must to recover the armour whenever a marine got killed.

Alex

Blatifagus said:

But wouldn't you be using a suit of Deathwatch terminator armour? I wouldn't think yiou would pack up a chapter suit and bring it with you - after all isn't the suit the chapter's not yours? I would think too many chapter relics would be lost that way.

I too think that the Terminator Armour worn by the Deathwatch is from the Deathwatch not the Marines home chapter. As a result I would expect that the Crux Terminatus on Deathwatch terminators would be a combination of the Deathwatch Emblem and the Standard Crux Terminatus. After all not all Crux Terminatus are the same, as shown by the ones worn in the Space Wolves Chapter.

On the Librarian Markings on Terminator Armour. The Insignium Astartes depicts Librarians with Terminator Armour with the Crux on the left (As all terminators) and the Chapter Badge on the Right.

Also as whatever your rank was in your Chapter doesn't mean your that rank in the deathwatch. It seems to me that when entering the deathwatch unless you become a Watch Captain or higher you are all the same rank. This would mean if you were a Captain, Codicier, or a brother in your chapter you are all equal upon entering the Deathwatch making those rank markings superfluous.

As for needing to showing you are a librarian by wearing blue, that is a Codex Astartes dictate, and therefore does not apply to the Deathwatch.

I also think that Space Marines modify their armour (at least superficially) to their tastes and to show their honours. A Librarian who came from a very strict Codex chapter might feel more comfortable if his Librarian rank is shown somewhere and the colour blue is shown aswell.

So a Terminator Librarian might have black armour with a the Left Shoulder and Arm in Silver (Including the Crux Terminatus) a librarian rank on his chest and a little blue trim.

In conclusion I think that the Crux Terminatus would be a Deathwatch custom job and besides the chapter badge all other Codex Markings will not be needed as the Codex Astartes does not apply to Deathwatch, but customisation would occur.

By the way I do not believe the Crux Terminatus has a force field. It has the effects of a force field but that reflects shots being deflected or absorbed by some of the immensely durable parts of Terminator armour.

Anyways that's jusy my thoughts and opinions. (Sorry if I seem to ramble)

tygre said:

See page 164.

Aelx

Would the Crux Terminatus of a Deathwatch Terminator suit not be incorporated into his Deathwatch =I= on his left arm?

And on the matter of the Deathwatch Librarian, I think that the Librarians Trim would be light blue, like the bit around his shoulder pauldrons, or the elbow pads, or the backs of his gloves

Blatifagus said:

Do you really need to describe exactly what he looks like ?

If I was in your position I'd just describe him as an Ultramarine librarian. Maybe mention that he follows the codex* closer than anyone else they have seen in Deathwatch. If that isn't enough, ask them what they think he should look like after he shows up.

*It must be noted that the entire structure of Deathwatch has major differences to the codex. To the point that I'd say that the Deathwatch is the chapter with the most variations from the codex astartes.

ak-73 said:

ak-73 said:

That has the text:

Since this is purely due to the chance of the hit glancing off the armour's strongest surfaces ...

Not a forcefield, just treated like one.