jgt7771 said:

I am sorry. I hope you continue psoting your recaps adn pbservations. Not too mcuhd etail spoiled.

PLEASE MARK SPOILERS CLEARLY OR REFRAIN FROM COMMENT.

To protect other people, I reported the offending comment as inappropriate.

Have to say, these reports from a 'fresh' viewer have been really eye-opening, will be a shame if someone's foolishness ruins a good thing.

NOTE: Might be good if also some of the posts commenting the original one were modified to remove any information…

Oh noes! Bran and Rickon are burnt fish sticks! Prince Theon is truly Lord of Winterfell!

Psha right. Theon’s an inept twit with a brainless obedient gang of thugs threatening enough death and destruction to hide his incompetence. Osha screwed him (literally!) out of his royal hostages—the OLDEST trick in the book—and the Bald Thug called him on it. So Theon had to thump him with a ****-you-for-being-right tantrum to try to stem the hemorrhaging of his control. And even with a bunch of horses and hounds, he still couldn’t find them. Oh sure, the show is trying (not very hard) to get us to think that he did, but to believe that that doof could actually accomplish such efficient brutality is to believe that whiny Hayden Christensen could actually be the galactically-feared Darth Vader.

Obviously Osha knows a few Wildling tricks—at least more than a salt-sucking goat would—and Theon is covering for losing them by burning those two poor farmboys as a ruse. (“Make sure you burn their faces!”) If I’m wrong, then I’ve seriously underestimated Theon, which is simply impossible.

Checking in with the rest of the Starks… As suspected, Tywin’s on alert for an assassin now, but obviously has no clue who or where he (she) is. Well, he has A clue (more of an assumption, really): he believes it’s the first-mentioned Brotherhood Without Banners, a believed resistance within the Lannisters’ ranks (or at least behind their lines). To us, clearly it’s not—unless Jaqen is a member—but it does possibly represent Arya’s first real shot at escape if such a Rebellion exists.

Tywin and Arya have the BEST conversations, as Tywin drops easy bait to verbally ensnare Arya. Arya betrays her knowledge of history, particularly her interest in Visenya Targaryen (one of the three actual dragon heads on their crest…seemingly like Arya herself: royal sister, special sword, more than a petal-sniffing princess…it’s quite possible Arya once hid inside the skull of her long-dead steed, Vhagar), her proper manner of speaking, and her noble-ish snarkiness. I especially enjoyed: “Has anyone ever told you you’re too smart for your own good?” “Yes.” I kinda hate to think where this oddly sweet relationship is going, because once the Helsinki Syndrome is broken, it can only end ugly.

As I hoped, Sansa has a certain fascination with the Hound. She tries to go all “indignant Princess” on him (cuz that’s her version of “plumage”), and he counters with insults of shocking violence, daring her to stay anywhere near him (cuz something in him WANTS her to). I dunno: I’m probably being such a girl about this, but this coupling is SO Beauty and the Beast! I mean, why else would they keep doing scenes with them?? After her “blossoming”, he was already in her room! He’s totally stalking her!

Catelyn has to (regrettably) keep Jaime alive (for a rapidly deteriorating hostage exchange agreement) after his brutal escape attempt earns him yet another personal enemy. (About time we got back to Jaime; it’s been WEEKS. Not sure his fantastic tale of squirehood makes up for his virtual non-presence all season, but it helps.) Of course, then he can’t keep his big mouth shut, and goes on and on at Catelyn like some anime villain looking for that one insult that charges the hero up with a second wind before his final glorious ass-kicking. And once he lands on Jon Snow, he finds it. Will Catelyn take off his head with Brienne’s sword, or will she maybe get more creative and lop something else off instead? (Hey, I’m just trying to keep Jaime alive, because he’s a treat to listen to.)

Cersei’s breakdown is quite sad (sorrowful). As Stannis nears their doorstep, she’s losing (lost?) faith in Joffrey’s state of mind: apparently in this world, the DNA degeneration of incest is more mental degradation over physical disfigurement. (I was told that Joffrey is much better-looking in the books, no offense to Gleeson.) There’s also her attempt at comforting Sansa—directly acknowledging that Joffrey’s not going to be any great romance—now that she’s child-bearable. >SHUDDER< Cersei’s talk kinda makes me wonder if the whole incest with Jaime started with love or some twisted sense of duty or purity. (Did Tywin have anything to do with it?) Time for Cersei to find a life coach? (Tyrion still seems to love her, even if she hardly ever reciprocates.)

Some small bit with Robb and Talisa, although it seems to serve little purpose other than getting Robb out of camp during Jaime’s jailbreak. Well, and maybe lend more credibility to his attraction to her, as it didn’t take a lot of convincing for him to go on a bandage run for her.

But speaking of attractions…oh, do I LOVE Ygritte the little ice trollop! I haven’t had this much fun listening to blue talk since Tyrion “confessed” at the Eyrie! She goads Jon with all manner of delicious dirty talk and mocking taunts, while his comebacks are blustery and weak, well, when he tries at all; mostly he just stands there and blushes, probably thinking about all them wet, warm places she claims to have. Of course she’s simply playing the long con with a completely pliable target, biding her time for a wildling commando squad to find her and capture Jon Snow. Granted, this whole subplot is still playing in full cliché mode, but Ygritte’s brazenness is SO entertaining (her voice is spectacular!), I’m letting it all slide (down the tundra ).

Finally, over in warmer climes, Daenerys is throwing snit-fits left and right at anyone who will listen about her missing dragons. Daxos keeps trying to shut her down, one would think so that she doesn’t get into too much trouble at the cost of his reputation, but really it’s so that she doesn’t upset HIS grand play. Daenerys is merely a pawn in an unseen power grab for complete rule of Qarth, and an actually successful one, as the Thirteen become Minus Eleven. All this time, I was getting a bit antsy about not knowing too much about the Thirteen, aside from the Spice King and the Warlock: turns out that was as unimportant as knowing the names of any other Dothraki Dany had left. Ah well, I never liked the Spiced Fruitcake anyhow (all those marbles in his mouth). But I have a bit more respect for the “parlor tricks” of Pyat Pree. (A thought: is this encounter with dark magic the MacGuffin with which to make them little puppet dragons bigger? Admittedly, I don’t know the growth rate of dragons, but my experience has always been in the scale of decades instead of months.)

The Masked Woman knows more than I thought about Jorah, but I still don’t know who she works for, be it a person or a society, what she’s capable of, or even what she looks like. I decided that I was at least tired of calling her that, so I looked at Jorah’s entry to find a name: Quaithe. Which naturally doesn’t help me at all.

jgt7771, I would just like to say that I absolutely love reading your episode commentaries. It's been so long since I've conversed with someone unfamiliar with the books, and reading your reactions to things as they unfold is a treat.

I was particularly looking forward to this one, and you did not disappoint!

Agreed, really fun reads!

I re-wathced the second half of teh episode last night - i ahev to tell you: The tyrion-Cersei scene is really wonderful. Lena Headey and Peter dinklage communciate so mcuh with just looks at teh end there - you can see how their life long distaste is a barrier to their realtionship - both as brother and sister and as political allies. They want to tun to each toher for support - they both fear Joffrey - but the years of antipathy have just created walls to high for the needs of the moment to tear down.

Really well done. and this is coming from the most committed Lannister hater on these boards.

Stag Lord said:

Agreed! It recalls the one scene last season between Lena Headey and Mark Addy when Cersei and Robert were finally just TALKING and not insulting each other. That tragic-ish scene was also about, "It's been so long it's too late to do anything about it now." And by the next episode Robert was dead.

I suppose this proves how truly fantastic Lena Headey is at being Cersei. And there's never been any doubt how perfect Dinklage is at being Tyrion.

The calm before the storm: everyone to be involved in the upcoming clash got a moment to express their position on the upcoming clash. Because, what the hell, everyone dies tomorrow; you may never speak another line again.

So we kinda bounced around like mad, trying to give everyone a chance to talk. No one character held attention for more than, what, maybe five minutes total in the whole episode. Maybe Tyrion did, or Robb and Arya, by virtue of being in someone else’s scene as well as their own.

So this ep may go in quick bursts, but I will say this: much of the individual exchanges between any two given characters is a testament to both actors’ justifications for being on this show in the first place. Small scenes, almost acting-school types of scenes, just the actors and the words…there wasn’t anyone I didn’t like (or appreciate). One of the best ensembles ever assembled.

Yara brings Theon a huge contingent of advice (which generally makes a poor garrison). Theon is adamant about remaining the Prince of Winterfell, even after Yara argues point after point about why that’s just not a good idea. She makes sense with every one of them; his points are all based on Joffrey-logic—“For I am Prince!”—and boastful lies. She even drops out of superior-***** mode to appeal to him as family, but Theon isn’t having any of it. If this were Shakespeare, this could own a whole chapter on the “How the Hero Blew Every Chance He Had” theme. Because deep in the Basement of Dead People lies the fugitive Bran and company, probably plotting revenge on the sparsely guarded Theon.

Jon Snow is brought to the Lord of Bones, who decides to kill him because they already got Quorin, also conveniently captured absent his now-dead Jon-hunting squad, all because Snow is almost a complete screw-up. (He should’ve stayed with Commander Mormont’s underpants.) Luckily, it would seem that Ygritte is still attracted to Jon’s underpants, and by virtue of his Stark blood, no one is killed today. Quorin’s got some half-assed undercover-behind-enemy-lines plan, but making Snow the crux of it doesn’t fill me with confidence.

The Lord of Bones had an odd reaction to the mention of the Starks. From the back of my head: “Hey, remember when you thought that maybe Benjen Stark had joined the other side?” Mance Rayder has almost reached mythical levels; by all general story conventions, it would not surprise me to find out that Mance is not unknown to Westeros, and not just as a lost Night’s Watchman.

On the other side of the hill, Samwell stumbles into a cache of old obsidian weapons and a Night’s Watch cloak under a stone marked by the First Men. (Since it keeps coming up, I suppose I should remember all this First Men stuff.) Still, a bit of a throwaway scene, isn’t it? I suppose I won’t understand the significance neither of this cache until its owner is revealed, nor of these lava glass daggers until, what, someone kills a dragon with one, since they won’t melt?

Robb gets a chain of scenes, first with Talisa, chatting about his Frey betrothal and his childhood with his father. (Awwwww…) Obviously, they’ve warmed up to each other.

Then, Robb is PISSED that Catelyn went over his head to enact a plan that relies on the honesty of Lannisters. Not that I don’t feel for her, but it’s kinda hard as a member of the omniscient audience to be on her side. She doesn’t know that Arya isn’t even part of the deal, and trading Jaime for Sansa, who is safe enough in the Hound’s sight, is not even close to a fair trade. Sorry, Catelyn, you should’ve kept your heart in check just a little while longer; now you may end up with nothing. (Lord Karstark could lighten up a little, but dead sons just don’t sit well with anyone.)

Finally, Robb and Lord Bolton discuss the squad of men headed to liberate Winterfell. Robb intends to offer any Ironborn a get-out-of-massacre-free card, so long as you aren’t Theon. Good plan, because we know that Theon’s men don’t even know how to spell loyalty (except maybe Dagmer). The Ziploc is closing on Theon’s chances…

This scene then transitions to Talisa’s turn to tell a story about her childhood. The sexual tension spikes, Robb blurts out he doesn’t want to marry a Frey, Talisa agrees, and then they can’t undress each other fast enough. When you’re so into someone that you can’t be bothered to take your boots off before…? Good stuff! (Of course, this relationship can only end in pain. Or maybe another Snow?)

Jaime wants to play his usual head games (always fun!) with Brienne, but she’s just too dutiful to even listen to him. Frankly, I’m rather keen to see these two matched up myself, because I’m with Ned: I don’t think Jaime’s as good at swordplay as he is at picking inferior opponents. Brienne would dice him. (Not too sure an aquatic approach by rowboat is such a good idea; this Mudgate is getting too much attention.)

Tywin is told that Stannis is almost upon King’s Landing, and if he wins, no Lannister will be allowed to survive the siege. Maybe they should pull out? No, Tywin gets all no-retreat-no-surrender and puts his faith in Joffrey, a Lannister by blood who will fight. (Yeah! Go, Tywin! Joffrey’s tough! He can do it! Dee dee deedle doo!) Meanwhile, Tywin’s got his own problems as he is losing his side of the war, because Robb is either really good or really lucky. But Robb is currently distracted by the Theon Brainfart (and Talisa’s boots), so Tywin intends to take advantage with a night strike, see if that works.

Too bad his Cupbearer heard the whole plan.

Arya’s too late to get Tywin’s name to Jaqen before the Lannisters ride out—very nifty Arya moment when she’s facing the two other jokers once held prisoner with Jaqen, and she automatically reaches for her still-missing Needle—so she’s got to quickly assemble her team of…um…cripes, “ragtag” doesn’t even begin to cover it. First, she outwits Jaqen by delivering him his OWN name, and shrugging off the dishonor of doing so. Sharp, sharp girl! (Gotta say I was a bit surprised by Jaqen’s “Please”; I’m thinking if Arya didn’t back down, that guy would have actually killed himself to balance whatever scales he worships.) At any rate, he props up every guard on the front gate, and the fearsome brute squad of Arya, Gendry, and Hot Pie just stroll out of Harrenhal. Hopefully that’s the extent of her oath of obedience.

Stannis’ fleet is one day out from King’s Landing. Stannis and Davos talk, and by that, I mean Stannis says something kinda serious, and Davos responds with a bit of humor. Suddenly it’s a rather cool dynamic, and Stannis finally seems sort of human. And it turns out that Robert really was a jerk: Stannis was loyal to Baratheon almost up to his own starvation, but he never got so much as a “thank you”. Renly got all the bonuses—so much more a people person—but Stannis still never gave up on his duty. Well, f*** them both. They’re gone and the throne is his, dammit, finally! I feel for him—the Baratheons are such a mess—but I would worry about the harshness of his reign. On the other hand…what? I’m gonna root for Joffrey? Pffft!

Tyrion stands alone again. Sort of. Bronn’s still pretty cavalier about this whole siege, but he’s figuring that he just has to do his job—without wearing a shiny gold target on his back, mind you—and let others handle the grandiose plans. But I LOVE his approach to extended siege warfare: it’s not the arrows, or the swords, or the fire…it’s the lack of food that kills ya. And thieves that steal the food will clean up when it comes time to sell it. So…kill all the thieves BEFORE the siege! Genius! What if someone held a riot, but all the looters were already dead? Short riot! Tyrion figures Stannis will try to beachhead at Mudgate, and ominously implies that “pig ****” will be waiting for him.

Awesome scene: Cersei makes her move against Tyrion. She butters him up, first reminding us all that she’s not forgiving him for Myrcella, or his plans for Joffrey, or the weakness of his second brain…and finally claiming that she caught his *****. You can see that Tyrion is absolutely petrified that she has Shae, but he keeps his tone and wit measured and unwavering. But in his eyes, you can see he’s thinking about Cersei’s oath of pain on the docks where Myrcella left. Cersei’s a bit drunk on wine, but nothing will prevent her from thoroughly enjoying his anguish as she drags out the big reveal…Ros! (Wrong! That’s the previous *****!) Flooding relief surely weakening his knees, Tyrion doesn’t break his whipped dog act for a second, not even for Ros, and delivers an equally ominous threat as the one Cersei gave him. Cersei doesn’t care, secure in her victo…

…OFF TO SHAE!!! She doesn’t quite understand why Tyrion’s acting like a man dying of thrist seeing a glass of water, but she gradually sombers up as Tyrion begins professing stuff. Seems those two really dig each other.

Tyrion and Varys chat on the wall. I think this was my favorite scene of the night (save for Talisa’s boots). First an odd comment from angry Joffrey that Varys is suddenly lacking his usual level of intelligence from the North. It would seem that his “little birds” dried up shortly after Theon took Winterfell. Wait…Theon killed all the Winterfell ravens! Can Varys talk to ravens, like the weird dreams of Bran? (That would explain a lot.) Then Joffrey…Joffreys all over the conversation (moron!), and the two sharpest guys in Westeros share a rampart. Essentially, Tyrion doesn’t want to die, and Varys respects his abilities more than any previous Hand. They could almost be friends if they trusted each other. Varys even volunteers that Daenerys is alive! With dragons! Even if Tyrion doesn’t believe him, I found that awfully proactive of Varys. He always seems to be playing a longer game than anyone else, but I’m not sure how effective a strategy that is if no one else can follow his game. Still, a delight to watch those two riff off each other.

Oh, and Daenerys and Jorah share a moment where she impresses her own hype against his frantic desire to flee Qarth. Obviously feeling much for her, he relents, and it looks like she’s about to hold a siege of her own against the Undying to get her babies back. (Although Varys notes it will be some years before those dragons become grown, so how long is Daenerys going to be stuck on the outskirts?)

The tyrion-Varys scene was teh highlight of the episode. "One game at a time, please". Classic - and the delivery was spot on. I like Tyrion SO much more in teh series than I ever did reading the novels.

Next week should be a barn burner. The producers had to go, hat in ahnd and ask for an extra 15 million from HBO to do the Battle of the Blackwater justice. from what I hear - its worth every penny. Can't wait.

The TV show is amusing but it is a pale shadow compared to the depth and quality of the books (obviously). I can live with most of the plot changes due the TV-format but I still find myself clucking like a chicken when things go down differently than the book.

The most disappointing failure in the entire TV series thus far is Winterfell the keep.

Look, I understand that the producers were on a tight budget during season one and decided to use some crap looking outpost/real life ruined castle as Winterfell but times have changed. The wolves were CGIed this season but Winterfell remains a hovel, a pure abominable dump, and it will not get changed for obvious reasons.

I do enjoy the greater perspective/depth given to Tywin Lannister, and I find myself foaming at the mouth in excitement when GRRM sprinkles in some random character elaborations/background-info that are not expressed fully in the novels (it is rare).

I was crushed by the plot change regarding Jon Snow's abduction by the wildlings. The producers/directors could have nailed that properly in accordance with the book series using the same time-frame and budget. The men of the nights watch, and even Jon Snow, seem so utterly incompetent at this point in the TV series it is appalling. Whomever is writing/directing the beyond the wall portion of the show should be replaced.

Season 2 Episode 9: Blackwater

Wow

Worth the price of suscription to HBO - all by itself.

That was an extremely satisfying hour to watch, with only a few minor quibbles, but nothing that isn’t blown to smithereens in a huge green inferno. Since this was a very event-focused hour as many characters’ stories merge together, commenting by person makes little sense, so I’ll just go scene by scene.

Stannis finally arrives in Blackwater. Quibble: another huge attack to happen at night. Obviously there are dozens of reasons for this—the explosion will look more impressive; production can hide the scale of things in the dark so few can pretend to be many; it’s still a perfectly viable invasion tactic, certainly for a castle siege; GRRM wrote it that way, so we hardly have a choice, etc.—but that still doesn’t detract from the fact that I’M NOT GOING TO ABLE TO SEE EVERYTHING! Now, I do eventually (and quite easily) get over this, but I am kinda tired of having all these great battles happening in the dark. (I’ve been spoiled in no small way by the Avengers, who staged their gigantic battle in the brightly-lit afternoon.)

Davos’ kid can’t help but get all religious again, and I quietly hope he dies. Maybe if he didn’t sound like a cultist I could drop it, but…oh…never mind.

Awwww, Tyrion and Shae really like each other. I find it fascinating that Tyrion would rather be anywhere (or anyone) else, but he’s stuck with his last name. He has to fight because if the Lannisters lose (warranted or not), his head will go right up next to theirs on the ramparts (deserved or not). The only Lannister not ever really acting like one (or at least when he does, he has a certain guilt about it), and yet the only one I’ve seen to be worthy of such a powerful name.

Cersei gets her royal save-one-bullet-for-yourself way out: nightshade! She seems exhausted now. What’s the use of holding up airs if you’re about to burn in a few hours? Time to get drunk and bitter about her screwed-up family.

Heee! Drink, f***, and be merry, for tomorrow we die! Bronn is always fun to watch—get that bit o’ nudity in before the extended violence!—and his quip about his nose had me rolling. Then the Hound shows up and has to get all icy-serious on everything. Not that I don’t get how much rage he has, but couldn’t he have just stewed by himself somewhere? Cuz now Bronn’s had enough and one of them is going di…oh thank the gods: saved by the bell. War’s on!

Varys is hanging out with Tyrion while he girds up for battle. Tyrion’s trying to hide behind his humor, while Varys…I think he would really miss Tyrion as the Hand, whether Tyrion ever fit in with his personal schemes or not. (Unlike Littlefinger, whom I think Varys views more as an annoying neighbor with similar interests.) Ever the enigma, Varys comes close to revealing all sorts of juicy details, but never quite delivers on any of them. (Natch.) However, he does pass over a map of every passageway in and out of the castle, and he does reveal Stannis’ dealings with Melisandre, who would be BAD for the throne. (Cultists in charge, and all that.) I totally agree, and find it difficult to root for either Rasputin or Stalin. (I just move down a rank and root for either Davos or Tyrion.)

Davos matches the Lannisters’ bells with his ships’ rowing drums. Couldn’t help thinking that any time the drums started on the anime Naruto, some bad guy was about to get his ass definitively kicked.

Bronn and Tyrion share a few last bro-words before heading out; by contrast, Joffrey has to be a d-bag to Sansa again, even as she passive-aggressively calls him a wuss. Both exchanges made me chuckle.

It becomes keenly obvious (like it wasn’t already) that Tyrion is the general of this war, and whatever his tactics are, Joffrey is completely oblivious to them, to the point where he has to ***** about how unconventional everything is. “Why is <predictably usual tactic> not happening?!” “Shut up, you brat!” Davos, on the other hand, can already tell something isn’t right; unfortunately, he just can’t figure out what.

Cersei holes up in the bowels of Red Keep with all the womenfolk. I can’t say I got much out of all this huddling refuge stuff. Maybe I was caught up in the fighting; I normally like Cersei, but her picking on Sansa shouldn’t have dragged so much. I get that Cersei’s at the end of whatever rope she has, even to the point of bad-mouthing Joffrey, and the dawning of her expected fate has got her lashing out at easy-target Sansa. It was almost about to get interesting as Cersei was trying to crack Shae—the same way Tywin was needling Arya; must be a Lannister skill—but then Lancel bumbles in and Shae is regretfully forgotten. I expect breaks in the adrenaline rush to prolong that intensity; I just didn’t expect those breaks to disagree with me so. (I’m willing to take partial blame for this if the majority of the audience enjoyed these scenes.)

And then came the lit match in the pitch-black room. Davos finally gets it too late to do anything about it, and I loved the lengthy pause as we followed Bronn’s arrow through its entire arc. The wake fuse is lit, burns FAST, and…

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Well, sheeee-it, that’ll wake ya up! The pyromancers sure delivered. I was a bit shocked that force of this stuff (all packed into one ship) just SHREDDED several hundred yards of warship. Loved the mix of conventional flames and Wildfire Green! It’s possible that Davos survived—I wouldn’t bet on it—but his “enlightened” son is green toast.

However, Stannis is untouched, having held back enough ships for a beach landing. He seems somewhat unimpressed that Tyrion has devastated his forces—“Can’t play that trick again.”—even though he seems pretty sure that even more will die, although I’m honestly not sure if his “thousands” meant everyone in King’s Landing, or if he’s resigned to something like D-Day, where failure is just not an option, no matter how many die, **** the machine guns!

Well, sure enough, Stannis hits the beach, still losing men to archer barrage, but he keeps pushing toward the Mud Gate. Tyrion is a little surprised (and a lot disappointed) that Stannis is refusing to give up. Joffrey whines that there are too many attackers, the Hound is ordered to hold the Gate, and reinforcements are recalled from the main gates. Looks like this is going toe-to-toe.

The Hound kills like a lawnmower, while Lancel gets his idiot self shot and runs all the way back to Cersei to “report the war status”. Cersei demands Joffrey be returned to where he won’t be slaughtered, but not back to her, because then Joffrey would be too blatantly a coward. (Really, Cersei? Is there anyone who doesn’t know that yet?) And this is where everything goes wrong.

The Hound gets spooked by a soldier on fire, and bails out. His men follow him obediently. Now unopposed, Stannis erects a few siege ladders and starts killing guardsmen up on the battlements. A longboat is flipped over to become a battering ram tank to assault the Mud Gate. After the Hound tells him to f*** off, Joffrey wets himself and runs off to hide under his bed. Last-man-standing Tyrion announces he will lead the counteroffensive, and a bunch of the newly-arrived reinforcements suddenly find other non-fighting places to be…which is the last straw. The lion that Shae keeps calling Tyrion rears up, and delivers one of those “Follow me, DAMMIT!” speeches that rouses whatever courage is left inside these walls. “There are brave men knocking at our door! Now let’s go and kill them!”

Cersei gives up, grabs her youngest and flees the room (likely before Ilyn starts “saving” the womenfolk). Shae urges Sansa to do the same, and Sansa goes to hole up in her room. Where (once again!) the Hound just happens to be waiting. (Tell me he wasn’t sniffing her undergarments.) The Beast implores Beauty to come with him; he’ll take her anywhere she wants to go and protect her. Sansa seems to think she’s safe already, not being a Lannister to exterminate, which kinda pisses him off, so he tries to scare into following him. But Sansa still doesn’t bite (for some f***ing reason), and I guess that’s the end of that budding romance.

Using Varys map, Tyrion and his men shuffle out through the ventilation systems, and ambush the gate-rammers. Tyrion taking the captain’s leg clean off was GREAT. The boat-ram is un-capsized and set aflame. Huzzah! Except…

This is where a bunch of stuff happened in rapid succession, and some of it got over my head my first view through. As my brain tried to process the last what-just-happened moment, the next one was already starting and I just couldn’t keep up. (Cersei’s suicide fairy tale wasn’t helping.) As such, I found myself abruptly at the end of the war, spoiling myself the conclusion before I had figured out how we got there.

Just as Tyrion gets his praise—I’m not certain chanting “Half-Man” is much of a compliment—Stannis’ reinforcements run their blitz. It almost seems like they were hiding around the corner of the castle, waiting for a “dramatic moment” in which to emerge; I honestly have no idea where they came from, or what took them so long to show up. Tyrion scuffles with a spearman, breaks free and then gets slashed by his own man? Presumably this joker had orders from Joffrey to kill the Imp and make it look like a battlefield casualty? Turns out Tyrion’s squire Podrick is as trustworthy as he hoped.

And then the cavalry shows up, and routs Stannis’ forces, but it took me a few viewings to get that. It wasn’t quickly clear to me which side these horses were on, as they seemed to be Baratheon, or maybe Lannister, and then they charged into an already-mishmashed collection of Baratheon and Lannister foot soldier melees. And it wasn’t until Stannis is screaming “Nooo!” and Tywin strides into the throne room what had happened.

Apparently, this was supposed to be a real mindfuck on Stannis, as Ser Loras showed up dressed like Renly. Oops! Back from the dead for revenge?!? (Unfortunately, I had already seen Loras at the end before I realized he was masquerading as his dead lover.) Instead of heading after Robb (as I’m sure we were supposed to assume), Tywin headed south to align with the highly-pissed Knight of Flowers, and bring their full hooved forces down on Stannis. (Unfortunately, I had already seen Tywin at the end as well; still surprising, but slightly less so than it maybe could have been.) And that many horses trumped whatever footmen Stannis had left; with good reason, they quit and fled, leaving Stannis alone on the wall to be captured. (Maybe y’all shouldn’t have run up there all alone, you blowhard.)

So the Lannisters win. Um…yay? No, not really. Joffrey’s going to be frakkin’ insufferable now, crowing about his win, lining the walls with heads. Tywin will probably take command of the Riverun through Ser Loras, and beat Robb back to the snowline. Margaery will probably find a way to get naked…but for Joffrey??? EW. (Sansa better get scarce fast!) There’s still time for Brienne to bust Jaime’s balls, but I doubt Tywin will honor any of Tyrion’s deals. Speaking of Tyrion…

…Well, Tyrion better not be dead. I realize that GRRM likes to whack characters (popular ones too), but HBO just got the only awards they could through Dinklage, and to remove him would be DISASTROUS. Ned’s death was a shock, but that told the full tale of the first book; GRRM was already done with him. Nobody is done with Tyrion yet, so I hope GRRM agrees.

I’m not holding out much hope that Stannis survives much longer, unless Melisandre needs him for some reason and this war goes into sudden death overtime. By my count, that’s three of three Baratheons. Does that end the whole House?

(And we’re not actually going to leave Theon alive up there, are we?)

I'm not going to answer any of your (delcious) questions at teh end there - though i am sorely tempted to. You'll find out in a little over forty eight hours anyway.

I will say though - don't feel bad about being confused at teh end there. i ahd to expalin to pretty mcuh EVERY non reader of my acquaintance just what was going on with knight of Flowers and tywin at the end there -a dn hwo Tywin tunred the tabels on Stannis. it came off much clearer in the novels than it did in the show. Kind of hard to recognize Renly's armor and all that.

So, is every season of Game of Thrones going to end like The Empire Strikes Back? We tie up a few threads that needed knotting, throw out a dozen Character Set-ups to position them for next season, and tease one big “holy crap” on the spine of the next year’s skeleton. Come to think of it, that’s how HBO ends ALL its series’ seasons.

I’m not as satisfied with the conclusions this time as I was after last season’s execution, but that might be because I’ve now had time to really stew in my loathing—Lannisters-suck loathing, not doesn’t-match-the-book loathing—of some characters, many of whom yet live but really oughtn’t, and, much like real life, often the good guys do not win, they just persevere while the victorious bad guys laugh at them. Given time, I’m sure I’ll find this series of seasonal denouements as strong as the last batch.

So, the Lannisters win…no, that’s not entirely accurate. Joffrey, Tywin, and Cersei win, and, in what has to be the most obnoxious set of planned speeches, lay out the spoils for their allies and the dog bowls for anyone else. Having demolished one front of his war, Tywin is ready to be the Hand of the King and take his newly annexed armies to dance on Robb’s head. He’s so **** excited, his horse can’t even hold its own manure. Fresh off her drunken binge of bitchiness, Cersei gleefully severs any royal attachments to Sansa (or any Starks) and shoves Joffrey’s smug face into Margaery Tyrell’s proudly-displayed, ambitious bosom. (The double entendres flow out of Margaery’s mouth like a broken spigot.) I do find it amusing that the last time a king preened in front of Natalie Dormer like that puke Joffrey, it was Henry VIII from The Tudors: “Oh, but I can’t, Mother, I am betrothed to another! What? Screw the Pope and start my own Church? Why, then of course I shall take Anne Boleyn to bed! Farewell, Sansa!”

On the other hand, informed by a gloating Pycelle, all Tyrion gets is a huge facial scar and a lower west side studio apartment next to the boiler room. He’s completely responsible for winning the war—yes, Tywin and Loras did the mopping up, but Tyrion culled and stalled Stannis enough to make it possible—and he doesn’t even get a thank you (except from Varys…suddenly I feel bad for not trusting Varys). In fact, they’ll probably try to kill Tyrion again. And what’s really sad is…that’s what he lives for! Playing the game is all he feels he’s good at—or worse, all he ever enjoys—and this is just the end of the current turn. Not all the way “back to start” at least: he still has Shae (good thing, since Bronn’s unaccounted for), and he seems to be whatever Varys considers a friend to be. With Varys’ recruitment of Ros, this will be a subversive team to watch, if they survive.

Then there’s Baelish, who seems to just keep breaking even without literally losing his head. Using Loras’s rage to get back into King’s Landing after falling out of Cersei’s favor, he is bequeathed Harrenhal…is that really a reward? Harrenhal is a frickin’ ashtray that Joffrey throws around like it’s a cake: “He gave me a castle, but all I really got was a moatload of upkeep, taxes, and headache.” Ever the opportunist, Littlefinger seems to “rescue” Sansa from her demotion to royal concubine (and chew toy), but he’s really just acquiring leverage against Catelyn’s heart. (Why that girl just won’t LEAVE that blasted place is beyond me.)

Stannis…what the hell?? He’s griping at Melisandre for her absentee god, and I want to know WHY HE’S STILL ALIVE!! Was he not captured? Imprisoned? Executed? For a while, I thought this entire scene was a dream inside his addled head as he talked to the rats in his cell. Then it gradually dawned on me that he somehow floated his defeated carcass back to Dragonstone. How this journey was even possible was apparently left on the cutting room floor! Ah, whatever. Some more Lord of Light smoke blown up his ass, and Stannis isn’t even listening anymore. I think I really need to read the books to understand why these two are anyone’s favorites.

Robb secretly marries Padme…er, Talisa, defying his mother’s advice and his vow to Frey, because…well, because apparently he felt that the Stark Experience just didn’t have enough complications. Hey, Robb, I dig her too, but you aren’t winning here, pal. Think maybe you could keep it in your pants until, let’s say, you have MORE than HALF of your family accounted for, eh? This is the first truly stupid thing Robb’s done—the trusting-Theon thing was naïve, perhaps, but not completely his fault—and I’m quite disappointed in him. (I think that was the list of the Seven Gods, wasn’t it? Oddly generic: no names, just “stations”.)

Brienne has a job to do, and the skill and the balls to get it done. “Two quick deaths…” Shocking. And for once, Jaime keeps his flapping yap shut. It sure is taking them a long time to get back to King’s Landing; I really have no idea where they are now…

Theon refuses to back down because he will not be…uh…The Guy That Backed Down! Even though he has no chance in hell of surviving this battle, he will rally his thugs to die for hi…oh wait, no he won’t, never mind. As I suspected, Robb’s generous offer was immediately accepted unanimously because Theon is the King of Twits, and his hardass crew is not going to put up with DEATH just because the King of Twits is the last Greyjoy heir. But they’re still ironborn bastards after all, so they might as well kill Luwin with a slow gut wound and torch the place on their way out. Bran’s Clan wanders off into the woods, and Winterfell joins Harrenhal on the list of Westeros’ Briquettes of Interest. (It isn’t yet clear if Theon is actually dead, so there’s still a chance I will get to see Robb yell at him.)

Arya and her misfits finally bump into Jaqen after he effortlessly slaughtered the night guard, and FINALLY it is revealed why he is so **** good at what he does. He’s also from Braavos, like Syrio, which is apparently where the best swordsmen are built. (I’m not surprised…well, I mean, I was surprised when Jaqen announced it, but I’m not surprised that that’s the explanation.) Arya finally feels her calling, but won’t go with Jaqen until her family is safe. (Better hurry up, girl; you’re running out of family to save.) So she gets a coin and a password, and Jaqen gets…swarthier. Now I got piles of questions about Jaqen and Braavos and Syrio and Arya’s future…

Daenerys goes to the Tower of the Undying to retrieve her Dragons, and ends up on her own spiritual walkabout: a ruined snowy Iron Throne Room (the future?), the tunnel through the Wall, and a tent with Drogo and Rhaego inside. I think she finally says goodbye, and ends the illusion, finding her dragonettes chained to a pedestal. Pyat Pree does his usual mirror image trick, manacling Dany with them, claiming some kind of power boost or something while they’re there. But Dany says the magic word (“Sic balls!”) and the warlock is incinerated by itty bitty dragonfire. Now absolutely done with the perfect city known as Qarth, she snakes Daxos’ vault key, finds that he’s a complete fraud—power is where men say it is—and locks him and her stupid, stupid ex-servant girl in the empty vault. Jorah tells the Dothraki to loot the palace dry; let’s go get a **** ship already!

In the last phase of Quorin’s gambit, he blows a valve and steams all over Jon Snow. The fight seemed real enough—could have been, for all I know the Halfhand—but, earnest or not, victorious at the end there, Snow made the choice to run Quorin through. Everyone seems to have bought it though, especially Ygritte, so we finally get to…WAIT a year before meeting the mythical Mance Rayder. But it may be too late for Jon to do anything about it, for the White Walkers and their undead hordes are already on the move. (Run, Samwell, run!)

I think my only problem this season is a certain perception of “padding” the further we got from the King War. Beyond business practicality—i.e. actors under contract, so we can’t NOT use them—Daenerys’ story feels a little bit like a circular distraction, and Jon Snow’s story feels like it could have told faster. (More than a few of my viewer friends are just fed up with the Wall.) Did GRRM devote that much time to Jon and Dany in the book, or were their chapters bound together more expediently? More like Intermissions instead of quick cigarette breaks? (None of this really detracted from any of my enjoyment: I’m still interested in the northier North, and any time with Emilia Clarke is a delight.)

And with that, we close for another year. Put away the northern zombies and pick up the southern vampires…

I just wanted to clear up the Jaqen part a bit. He is what is known as a Faceless Man. They have the ability (we have no clue how much, if any, magic is used) to change their face. Not sure how it works or how many faces they can choose from. You can hire them as assassins, but they cost a retarded amount of money. Like enough money that Tywin Lannister would probably think better of hiring one. One of the things the show left out in the first season was the Small Council discussing whether to hire a Sorrowful Man or a regular assassin to kill Dany or not. Someone, maybe Robert?, I think mentions hiring a Faceless Man and everyone pretty much just laughs at the idea.

Clash of Kings was a pretty slow book in general. We didn't really get to see much Robb in the books and we spent a lot more time on Sansa. The last 150 pages or so were really the only exciting parts of the book. There wasn't quite as much Dany and Jon as there was in the show, but they didn't create that much extra for them either. Although they completely changed the Dany story. Like they changed it enough that I don't even know how her story is going to work.

jgt7771 said:

This might get explained when the DVD's come out or perhaps next season but Harrenhal is actually pretty desirable. The lands that go with the Lordship are considerable and very valuable. Okay, its still reputed to be cursed but Littlefinger ain't scared of some old wives tales.

How can you guys watch the HBO show; play LCG card game; and not read the books? Try the audio books if you hate reading. =)

As Beniof and Weiss depart form Martin's source decks - are you guys liking where they are going or not? Generally I think they are doing a better job than old GRRM, but that might be my frustration with his multi year delays in publishing.

I'm glad I stopped watching it a loooongg time ago. Utter crap. Read the books.

Well -I'd love to read new books - if GRRM ever stopped painting miniatures and published a new one.

I'm glad I stopped watching it a loooongg time ago. Utter crap. Read the books.

You know nothing, Jon Snow

You can't look at the books and the show as being the exact same story. Any adaptation is going to have to diverge to one degree or another by virtue of the different media.

Jackson's Middle Earth movies are a good example of what I mean. The three Lord of the Rings movies are far more faithful to the story in the books than the three Hobbit movies are. The Marvel Universe movies are good examples, too. There is a lot of divergence, to varying degrees, from the comic book story arcs that inspired them.

Sometimes, you have to look at adaptations as a retelling or different version of the story you know. You can't treat seeing a movie or TV show of your favorite book the same way that you would treat re-reading the book. I have found that the HBO show is a lot more enjoyable if I stop comparing it to the way the story unfolded in the books and more as an "alternate universe" Westeros. Having been an avid comic book reader in the 80s and 90s, the concept of "alternate universes" with similar, but different, characters and stories comes fairly easy to me. It's not much different from trying to compare a Disney movie to Grimm's Fairy Tales.

Is the HBO show good TV? Usually. Is it the same story that I loved in the novels? Heck no. Can I enjoy both of them for what they are? You bet. Problems tend to come when people try to treat them as the same story. They really aren't.

They most definitely aren't - and (for my money) Beniof and Weiss have surpassed Martin in story telling. Just seeing who met up with who is Essos last night (The Gift S5 E07) was plot advancement that Martin has denied us for over 15 years. I am really losing confidence in his ability to finish this story - something I used to argue fiercely against, but the passing of the years has swayed me.

I think that I have been very forgiving of the adaptation thus far and have enjoyed the show a lot. They have been very faithful to the story and using the main characters up until this season. I don't think I'd have nearly as much of a problem with this season if they continued with including all of the main characters. It really bothered me to see them exclude Arianne Martell. Maybe she isn't as much of a main character as I am suggesting, and maybe she is being replaced by a Sand Snake or Ellaria Sand(or a combination of both for splitting up her role) but so far I feel like there is a lot missing from the Dorne storyline that makes it feel like a shell of what I had read.

I know that is a comparison to the books, and that the show is telling a slightly different story, but I really don't like their dropping of a main character(specifically one who has a narrative role). You read their thoughts more than their actions so it feels like, as a reader, you lose a direct tie to Dorne. Minor characters I don't care as much about and changing some of the character names doesn't bother me at all(even though Yarra is weird).

Also, I would like Doran Martell to have more than 4 minutes of camera time through out the whole season. I'm hoping we see a lot more of him in the final three episodes.

Also, I would like Doran Martell to have more than 4 minutes of camera time through out the whole season. I'm hoping we see a lot more of him in the final three episodes.

I love the fact that it's the same actor that did Dr. Bashir on ST:DS9. I think he's really good in the role. But I was disappointed that Hotah didn't say, "Someone always tells" in the episode.