About Orell the Eagle.

By Uncle Joker, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

While Orell the Eagle is attacking, opponents must declare at least 2 defenders in order to defend the challenge.


I have Orell the Eagle in play attacking, and the opponent has Greatjon Umber, can Greatjon use his ability but nobody else declared as defender? Or even Greatjon Umber is in by his ability, the opponent must declare at least 2 more defenders in order to defend the challenge?

A similar question about it was for the plot Desolate Passage.

Each player cannot declare more than 1 attacker or defender in each challenge.

My interpretation:

Orell the Eagle does not prevent you from declaring defenders in any way - there is no restriction like in the case of Desolate Passage. The restriction placed on what is considered to be successfully defending in a challenge - not on declaring defenders - which is an important difference. An example of a character which prevents you from declaring defenders is KotS Balon Greyjoy :

"If Balon Greyjoy is the only King character in play, characters with lower STR than his cannot be declared as defenders while he is attacking. "

Intimidate on the other hand is a keyword which makes characters of lower strength that the attacker not count their strength in a challenge they participated as a defender. See that in this case, there is no restriction on declaring as a defender - just like in the case of Orell the Eagle.

So in your example, if you declare only one defender, you are not considered to be defending the challenge. So you can use Greatjon Umber's ability, but if he's the only defender, his strength is not counted for defense purposes.

With Desolate Passage, if you have already declared one defender, the restriction on the plot prevents you from declaring another defender. So you won't be able to use Greatjon Umber's ability if you already have one character defending.

I think you are confusing declaring defenders in order to defend the challenge with the check for whether a challenge is considered unopposed.

The rules say:

"The opponent you are challenging now has the
option to kneel any number of his or her characters
that have the corresponding challenge icon
(or are enabled to participate by some card effect)
to defend against your challenge."

So, you declare defending characters in order TO defend the challenge. That means "declaring defenders" and "defending the challenge" are functionally the same thing. As such, Orell requires you to declare at least 2 defenders, or none at all. Declaring just 1 defending character but ignoring it during challenge resolution is not an option.

Orell does not, however, require there to be at least 2 defending characters before the defending player can count STR in the challenge, nor does he change the rules for determining if the challenge is "unopposed" (which is not the same thing as "defended"). So if you are able to get another character into the challenge as a defender some way other than declaring them as a defender, everything else is the same.

Greatjon Unber can use his ability to become a defender in the challenge because he is not "declared" as a defender. And, whether there is another character in the challenge or not, he will count his STR during challenge resolution and determination of "unopposed."

If someone attacks with Orell, and I only have Greatjon Umber, I cannot declare him as a defender - I only have one character. I can use his ability to join the challenge as a defender during the action window, which would stop the challenge from being unopposed and let him count his strength to hopefully defende successfully.

BTW Orell + Desolate Passage = you cannot declare defenders.

ktom said:

I think you are confusing declaring defenders in order to defend the challenge with the check for whether a challenge is considered unopposed.

The rules say:

"The opponent you are challenging now has the
option to kneel any number of his or her characters
that have the corresponding challenge icon
(or are enabled to participate by some card effect)
to defend against your challenge."

This is what I'm confused about. It says that you have the option to kneel any number of characters that have the corresponding challenge icon. And afterwards in the rules it says:

"Your opponent must declare at least 1 defending character in order to be considered defending against a challenge."

I thought that Orell basically modified this statement, except instead of "1 defending character" it becomes "2 defending characters"

Based on that paragraph I thought that I could declare defenders, just that I would not be considered to be defending the challenge (similar to how attacking characters with intimidate work - you can declare characters with lower str as defenders, it's just that their strength won't matter in the challenge resolution).

Zsa said:

This is what I'm confused about. It says that you have the option to kneel any number of characters that have the corresponding challenge icon. And afterwards in the rules it says:

"Your opponent must declare at least 1 defending character in order to be considered defending against a challenge."

I thought that Orell basically modified this statement, except instead of "1 defending character" it becomes "2 defending characters"

Or what about this: if I do not declare any defenders, and am therefore not "considered defending against the challenge," am I no longer the defending player?

There are a lot of issues involved in looking at that statement as independent from the "kneel any number of characters...to defend" statement. They are connected, so Orell cannot affect one without affecting the other.