Ok, got an important question for the community/designer!

The new guides format do interest me a lots. Its way better for house use but... if i get the core rulebox, will i need the components from the vault too? I know they'll add action and stuff from winds of magic and sign of faith in the guides but won't give the components in the vaults so if we want those components we have to buy these box.

Then i ask myself. If i buy the core rulebox, will i get all the components from Gamemaster's Vault and Player's Vault? Or is there still some components not supported by the core rulebox in these...

Confusing.

Just get the boxed set. If you like the system, have your players buy that other stuff.

..my two cents..

jh

E has a point, but i'll throw in my two cents too...

It seems that FFG got a lot of backlash for the untraditional method of production for what would otherwise have been a traditional pen and paper RPG. The stands and quality graphics are fantastic and i love them, but they are not for everybody.

It seems to me that FFG is releasing these new materials, vaults, boxes, etc, to suite the more traditional pen and paper rpg fans and capture an audience that FFG feels they may have missed out on. In a way, they are just re-releasing the game in a modified format. Now the marketing team steps in and says, "well we can get the people to who already own the game to rebuy the new stuff by giving them a few new somethings they would not otherwise already own in addition to the udpated rules."

We are all presented with a scenario where the new boxes and vaults are what we all really wanted to begin with, but we already own the $100+ set that gets us 80% of what we want.

So. I say, if you are starting new, go with all the new content and do not get the original box set. Though i'd guess the box set will be a tad bit cheaper for the comparable content in box/vault purchases.

By purchasing the new content you should be recieving more current content/rules, specific content you need/want, and a more flexible rule system.

I want to repurchase everything and start fresh. I dont like that one bit. Have not decided if i will or not yet.

Gitzman

Emirikol said:

Yes, I agre. Just like Emirikol said buy the core set and enjoy the game. In other topic You said that your a little bit scared so don't be and give it a try. Buy the core set (it's cheaper the all the G&V products together) and You will have all what You need to play.

I'm going to get the Creature Guide, and nothing else. I don't think I need any of the other things, given that I already have the original box and all the extras.

In my case, I bought the downloadable PDF version of the core player rules first ($10), to see if I liked the system.

...Then I bought everything else.

Maybe wait for the guides to hit stores if you're not convinced.

Illustrious said:

Ditto for me. Though I am convincing my players to get these products.

...Then again, if there are any BRAND NEW elements in these guides/vaults that owners of the core game don't have... New locations? Monsters? I have all the expansions so far... But.. what if I miss something?!

Gitzman said:

And don't forgot correct text on the 'currently incorrect' cards...

/sore subject

First off, it's a great game and so there is no reason to be "shaken" by the system. Once you get the hang of it, it flows so smoothly and blends fantastic game design with great narrative potential with an easy to use, player friendly system.

With that being said, it's really hard to say at this point which product(s) you should get. None of us have seen the guides so there is conjecture both ways on their validity to core box owners. I'll throw in my two cents since others have done so as well.

Guides/Vaults:

The guides/vaults, by what I know so far, are the worst entry point for component players. You see, based on what has been confirmed, in the players vault you get only the components from the core box...period. That leaves out all the player components found in Adventurer's Tool kit, Gathering Storm, Winds of Magic, Signs of Faith, and Edge of Night. So as a player, you will still need to get all of these boxes if you want to play from a "full deck." Sure, the Player's guide will have a write up for the card that is in these sets, but if you want the component (be it just one card) you have to buy that particular box set as well. So lets say you want to play a jade wizard. Well, you will have to buy the player's vault and the Winds of Magic in order to get the necessary career cards, etc to get all the information in card format. In my opinion, this is not the greatest way to go. To me, the player's vault is more designed as: you bought the core book, love the idea of the components, so you end up later buying the vaults without having to buy the core box. The players vault, in itself, is poorly designed for the one-stop box for players. In the end, to play any magic using career you as a player with full components it is an 80 dollar buy in...and you still get a bunch of stuff you don't need. So it's really not all that ideal.

The creature guide/vault...no points here as it contains a great deal of new info (though a good chunk will be reprints from the core box, winds of magic, and signs of faith).

The GM guide/vault:

Here is the tricky one...The GM guide will give you all the rules from all the sets. The vault itself however, as it is described, only gives you half the components you need to run with "everything." We get corruption counters, dice, a number of location cards, but there is no mention of any of the expanded GM material (such as the disease deck, mutation deck, and location cards from the Winds of Magic/Signs of Faith box sets).

So again, you are getting all the information and less than half the components.

So where does that leave a person who bought in through the vaults/guides who want the full components? You have to buy everything, but the core box. Additionally, when you buy that expansion, all the rules and stuff you are paying good money for in those old box sets, however, you already have at your disposal. You are simply re-buying portions of information and a different layout (the cards) instead of charts. All the rules you already have spent money for in the guides, you are simply paying for in a different format (the components) and in an inferior format (the out-dated, non clarified rulebooks of each box set). To me, as a consumer, that seems like FFG are asking component users to waste a huge amount of money if they have not already bought into the Warhammer product line. New component players, who buy the vaults, have to spend way more money than someone who does not want to play with components and a great deal of that information are repeats.

The last point to consider is the rule "clarifications" of the guides that seem, from what they have posted thus far, are not simply clarifications, but actually new rules. They can dress it up with terms as much as they want, but the new initiative clarification is a straight up, new rule that I do not think anyone ever considered. Additionally, the clarification of how to deal with card recharge in non-encounter mode goes as far as clarifying the rule to a point that the rule for how to do this has been established "only" in the guide because there is no other literature out there concerning how this works. So, if you buy the core box, you will still have to deal with the old "rule" problems that the core rulebooks still have. If you want answers to those rules and the "updated" rules, you have to buy the guides. Again, we can't really say how far these "clarifications" paint a different system than what was originally presented until the new rulebooks are in our hands. FFG has been tight-lipped about it other than some assurances, but what they say and what they are publishing online seem to me, to be two totally different positions. Saying, we assure you there is nothing new, then putting up something with clarified rules that are not even mentioned in the core book are not the same message.

So, if you buy the core box, you do not get an up-to-date system. It also will not include the card errata that the vaults will include such as double strike.

Of course, this is all based on the slight web-articles FFG has published concerning these guides/vaults.

What I would tell you to do is wait to buy into the game until the core books are out, honestly. Then read some reviews, legitimate reviews of the differences between the guides/vaults and the core box. By then, the community will know how best to point new gamers in the right direction as well as point those who bought the core box and all the expansions, the need for us to actually buy these guides/vaults or not.

If you already have the core box, crack it open and start playing. It is a fantastic game.

One other reason to favour the original core set, for me, is dice. That set comes with 36 dice...

8 × Characteristic, 4 × Reckless, 4 × Conservative, 6 × Fortune, 4 × Expertise, 6 × Misfortune, 4 × Challenge

...while the GM's Vault comes with 12. We don't yet know what the mix is for these, but I'll bet it's the same as the Dice Accessory Pack, which is also 12 dice...

3 × Characteristic, 2 × Reckless, 2 × Conservative, 2 × Fortune, 1 × Expertise, 1 × Misfortune, 1 × Challenge

You want at least 4 Challenge dice, since the standard check difficulties go up to 4 dice, and it can be helpful to have more. So even if you buy the GM's Vault, you'll probably end up wanting to buy three more Dice Accessory Packs (at $11ish a pop) just to have enough dice.

And then, with the equivalent of four Dice Accessory Packs, you still end up with too many Characteristic dice (12, when you should never need more than 6), too many Reckless and Conservative dice (8 each, when you probably don't need more than 4), and not enough Misfortune dice (you'll have 4, and a single roll can easily need more).

Until such time as FFG make the custom dice available individually, I think the dice mix in the core set is greatly preferable to building your own set in this way.