Ok

First a little about me and my gaming group: I'm a long time roleplayer for 15+ years. Been playing D&D 4e which after a little less than 2 years we trashed completely to go back to our earlier and old 3.5 edition, now rolling with pathfinder and having fun as far as a high fantasy system it is. For us the 4e hype finally failed... we were having boring time with the over-the-top mathematical and miniature gamey mecanics.

We've invested however a good bunch of bucks into it, which only made us learn to be more cautious with NEW IMPROVED MARKETIZED SYSTEM!!!! If it has one thing good is that it made us try new games on the market. We've recently went to the WH40K which we are loving so this cover our Sci-Fi needs with a solid dark, sci-fi system (as well as Star Wars saga edition which is awesome as an heroic space opera).

Then, naturally, we tried the older WFRP 2nd edition which is great but a tad simplistic. However, the natural low fantasy setting hitted the mark with us as something way different to roll than a Pathfinder game, both having their target. And now, finally, we're at the turning point... considering WFRP 3rd!

Our concern about WFRP 3rd: New dice, lots of token, board gamey aspect... let me say its frightening to us. We absolutely don't want to trash money anymore because we do prefer to invest it on our already selected and approved RPG lines. So... i'll be honest that these new Guides/Vaults made us consider to move to this edition but thats what frigthen us more too. Abilities on cards may be a good mecanic but not having it in a book as well for taking a look at was a negative point. If the whole WFRP line had been released as a dual combo guides/vault we would have been interested way before. The dice are ok with us, but they seems costly. Tokens... thats something we're not sure its all that necessary. I mean we've always noted on our sheet and it always been ok, so why having necessary costly token for wound and such... Same for career sheet, never needed that in 2nd edition so why not just having a character sheet?

Here's our 10 topic questions:

1- I heard there won't be fluff in the guide... so basically are we getting a half-baked product? Same with Vault... if we decide to buy the components, i heard it won't even support the whole guide, so we'll have to buy the guide, the vault and then the expansion... duplicating a lots of stuff...

2- I have 5 players... how am i gonna support those 5 with components if core only gives 3??? Whats the best way without making 3rd a $$$ sink!

3- Whats the pro and con of 3rd edition if we compare it with the simple 2nd (no war intended, dare you )

4- Are really all those components that much useful or needed? so many tokens and stuff...

5- How is the content so far? Is there a few region supported? Race? Career? Spells and miracles? If you compare it to 2nd, is the content really spread out for selling purpose a la D&D 4e???

6- I heard they are releasing all 4 chaos god fluff/crunch on different box and not releasing it in guide/vault which create even more duplicating... is it true and is that stuff worth it?

7- Is there components/tokens less usefull than others? Miniatures gameplay heavy is out for us and i heard they gives Standup for tracking, which is the same for us. How needed are they? How is the game bloat with all these cards and tokens stacking when preparing for a session?

8- Does the system keeps the gritty, low-fantasy theme on? Is it still a fast and furious combat system like the WH40k line, with a dealier feel?

9- I saw a magic item card, are the rare magic items on cards now? Equipment? What's with me designing magic item and ability with the whole card mecanic??

10- How would you rate the system complexity for new games and old time veteran? What would change about it?

Absolutely a great thx if you can answer our concerns!! I know its much to ask but we are really interested and anxious at the same time... i saw great comments on the net for this system, but i saw it too for D&D 4e :S

D4M0CLES said:

I'll buy the Guides since I want the rules and stuff in hard covered books but I allready have the components from all the previous sets. As I understand it it's only the Creatures Guide and Vault that adds new stuff if you own the previous releases. The other Guides seems to have the rules in a better structure though, so I will get them too.

D4M0CLES said:

I think the cheapest way to support 5 players (I have 5 players) is to buy the Adventurers Toolkit (you get an extra set of basic actions) and then foto copy one set of basic actions for the 5th player and put them in deck protectors (that's how we did it, and it works well). It's only the basic action cards that restrict you to 3 players in the core set, so you could buy the core and then copy two sets of basic actions.

D4M0CLES said:

No clue, never played the 2nd.

D4M0CLES said:

I love to tokens and stuff and use them a lot. They make keeping track of everything simple. My players like it too so.

D4M0CLES said:

Races: Human, Dwarf, High Elf, Wood Elf so far.
Careers: There are a lot of them, and more coming, but the core set contains most of the stuff you need. The wizards and priest expansions add the rank 3 step of those careers though.

D4M0CLES said:

I think it's a good way to release the chaos gods in themed expansions.

D4M0CLES said:

The standups are mainly to make combat easy to handle, and it works well.
I store the cards and components in a box for screws, nails and stuff. Works really well and there it needs almost no time for preparation before the sessions.

D4M0CLES said:

I feel that the system gives you a warhammer fantasy feeling (I play warhammer fantasy battles).

D4M0CLES said:

Many item cards hold information about story items in the different adventures, but there are also a lot of general magic items that you can use (like enchanted shield). Normally equipment is written on your character sheet though.

D4M0CLES said:

For a veteran, an easy system to get started with. The rulebooks could have a better structure and more clear rules. But if you reed the rulebook once or twice and check the errata, it should be a pice of cake.
With a veteran GM it would be easy for a new gamer to play the game since most of the rules the players need to know are on the cards in front of the player.

D4M0CLES said:

This is EXACTLY the same journey I went through. We stomached D&D 4e for about 6 months before we deemed it lower than the the sweat from Nurgle's dangling hernia. We then went back/forward to Pathfinder, which we still enjoy, but the scenarios for PFS were just a little too linear (still based on the archaic, "you must kill somethign to get experience" mentality of the ex-RPGA'ers). We still keep that option open and enjoy it, but I forced my group to move to WFRP 3. (see my comments below). I've also been playing WFRP3 on MAPTOOL virtual tabletop with some blokes across the other side of the globe.

I started in WFRP2e not because of the system but because of the world-depth and content. I too considered 2e's system a little too basic (but fun nonetheless).

D4M0CLES said:

I was just thinking about this the other night. There's MORE fluff in the core set than there was in the 2e hardcover. There are fewer careers however. Your best bet is still to just buy the core set (online, cheap).

D4M0CLES said:

You'll have no trouble playing with 5 except for the dice. Imagine playing a 5 player Pathfinder game with dice only for 3 players. No different. I bought extra dice (don't until you play the game).

D4M0CLES said:

3- Whats the pro and con of 3rd edition if we compare it with the simple 2nd (no war intended, dare you )

2e had a lot of product to buy and a lot of fan fluff (namely Tome of Salvation/divine, Realms of Sorcery/arcane, etc., etc, etc. ). The highlight of 2e is that hardcover contained a crapload of character careers. 3e is more of a balance between Gm, fluff, player, and components.

3e has the same book and the same rule ideas but using different dice. You have a couple new stats: Fatigue and Stress which allow you to push yourself harder. You have just fortune points instead of fortune and fate like in 2e. There are cards for critical wounds (if that's your kind of thing). You have special abilities now beyond basic combat and skill actions more akin to other game systems..but unlike D&D 4e's system, 3e allows you to recharge your actions instead of just daily/encounter/whatever.

D4M0CLES said:

No, you really don't need most of it. It's just set up that if you don't want to track it on paper, you can use counters instead. I've always just used paper (which is what the Players Guide is going to use. The Cardboard mini's/standups are something that work well (we don't use the stance rings..they're just redundant).

D4M0CLES said:

I've bought all the products so far. Here's my review:

Core set: tons of content, rules explanation is not clear enough for my taste. I like bolded words and ZERO fluff if it's not related to an example. You're best using UHead's rule summary for your players: www.gitzmansgallery.com/WFRP3_Resources/index.html

Adventurer's Toolkit: This merely contains more careers and stuff.

GM's toolkit and GM's screen: This is probably the least useful thing I own..including the GM screen..

Extra dice: I should have just bought an extra core set. You get more and extra rulebooks.

Sign's of Faith: Excellent product. Contains the diseas rules and info on Nurgle. Lots of new beasties.

Winds of Magic: Excellent product. Contains corruption and mutation rules.

Edge of Night scenario: Decent short scenario with Ubersreik town details

The Gathering Storm scenario: Decent long scenario

D4M0CLES said:

Yes. These supplements have been very good.

D4M0CLES said:

Well, if you are tired of the 5'step dance and D&D 4e rube-goldberg-machine style of DM-doing-nothing-but-accounting, this game is a solution. It was tough for us at first to get away from the "flank/5'step" crap that's been so innundated to us with other systems. Now you just get to an encounter. You're either in the battle our at some range outside the battle. It just assumes that it's a fluid moving combat.

The Standups are there to represent your character. Either in or out of the engagement. You could just wing it, it's not like range matters anymore. You're not applying piddly +2-2 modifiers depending if someone has toe lint on a thursday, naval lint, eye boogars, strep throat, firing into melee, or long range squinting with ongoing damage. None of that, pardon my Antarctican, sh**, is used.

Regarding the game bloat: CLUTTER ON THE TABLE can be an issue if you've got the basic action cards and the career cards on the table. Just use the UHead rules supplement for basic actions and write your career talent slots on your character sheet and you remove clutter. Then the only things you need are: Character sheet, talent cards and action cards.

If you have two players that want the same talent or action card, guess what you can do...use a photocopier or have them write it down on a post-it

D4M0CLES said:

Yes. It does this as well as the last system. You've actually got more ways to /die/ in this game: critical wounds, corruption (mutation), Insanity, Disease. The Khorne boxed set is going to have permanent wounds as well.

D4M0CLES said:

Yea, these take items beyond "+1 sword" and give them background. You hand it to the character and he writes it down. It actually reminds me of the Cert's that we used to get when we would play Living City back in the day The card's arent' really necessary, but FFG made them to give more stuff to the player. You don't need to design stuff on a card (I don't).

One thing that I don't like in 3e is the equipment chart. It's not a "list." It's a rough collection of odd categories (like climbing equipment) and then a paragraph of what falls into that category and the GM and player have to figure out which cost category the items fall into. I like lists: Rope - 2 sp, Grappling hook 3sp, tent 3sp, etc. Oh, and the price of a horse is NOT included..you should pick a number like 8 gold where it's out of the reach of a beginning character, but not so high that only a noble could have one.

D4M0CLES said:

It's COMPLEX to learn, but experienced gamers will pick it up in about a 1 hour mock combat (use the DEMO scenario to learn). Without UHead's rules summary, it can be difficult to learn. www.gitzmansgallery.com/WFRP3_Resources/Docs/WFRP3/WFRP3%20Rules%20Summary%20-%20Universal%20Head%201.pdf. You've got: wounds, criticals, stressed, strained, fatigue, fatigued, unconscious, knocked-out, fortune, recharge, constant talents, rechargable talents, a new dice set, resilience checks, discipline checks, healing, healing critical wounds,temporary insantiy, checks for permanent insanity, fear, terror, difficulty ratings on skill checks, maneuvers, ranges (engaged,close, medium, long, extreme), basic action cards, card traits, career traits, "hand weapons" and specific weapons, etc.

What would I change? I'd write the rules more clearly, I'd put the recharge on talent cards (4 or ?) and I'd include more advanced careers in the core (because players need somethign to aspire to besides going sideways to another basic career).

Mostly, it still comes down to the world. I've got one player who doesn't like dark, grim worlds like warhammer. He likes fluffy-bunny worlds where everyone is happy and characters never die, get diseased, or go insane. He likes worlds where magic items are like candyland. He likes worlds where if you play with your privates in public, that's ok. He likes worlds where a character is determined by his STATISTICS rather than personalities (he can't play a character unless it's an odd race and a class/career he's never played before). He likes halflings and if halflings aren't a character race yet, then damit, I doesn't like it. He doesn't like worlds where characters have to think, players talk in funny voices, that you can't bully the town guards, and where steam-powered tanks and dwarfen gyrocopters (and wierd magic) exist. If you can't just kill it and take their stuff, my player doesn't like it.

..but I like the Warhammer world. I draw a lot of stuff from the 2e and fantasy battles games. Afterall a rule system is only as good as the enthusiasm of a GM about his adventure, the characters and the world.

It's NOT cheap. If you want cheap, play Savage worlds. It's cheaper than D&D 4e though..and a much better system. It's cheaper than having bought all of the 2e stuff, but you have to pay if you want more careers in 3e.

Welcome to the crew if you decide to join us.

Don't forget to download UHead's rule summary..not kidding.

Jay Hafner

Colorado, USA

..

One more suggestion too: You will do well to just put your cards into album sheets (2x3 for the regular and talent cards double up, and 4x5 negative holders for the career and party sheets).

jh

D4M0CLES said:

D4M0CLES said:

D4M0CLES said:

3- Whats the pro and con of 3rd edition if we compare it with the simple 2nd (no war intended, dare you )

D4M0CLES said:

D4M0CLES said:

D4M0CLES said:

D4M0CLES said:

D4M0CLES said:

D4M0CLES said:

D4M0CLES said:

D4M0CLES said:

You've been given some good advice I think on getting the core set only, downloading the rules summaries and giving it a go. I think you should try it with all of the components (or most of them at least) as that's the way the game was designed. See if you like it and if not, the components you don't like. If you're not intending to use any of the components, then why not just stick with your second edition books? Presumably because you want to try something new. And hopefully 'better.'

It will definitely take some time to get the hang of, so don't start out with something essential to a huge campaign and then be disappointed that things went a bit weird. Try a short scenario first so that you get the feel for the rules.

1. I haven't got the 2nd edition rulebook, so I can't compare, but I don't think there is much background in any of the 3rd edition products. There's a bit, but it is quite spread out. The advantage of that is that it leaves more open: you can emphasize the things that interest you. If you want your characters to be fighting giants every week, reporting back to an Emperor on a griffon: you can do that. It doesn't appeal to me, but there's plenty of room to ignore that side of things and concentrate on the poverty, the social tensions and the politics.

2. I agree with the others. Get the core set, photocopy what you need, and buy extra products if you like the game over time and build up extra cards.

3. Already covered: it's the same basic setting. The rules give a very different feel though. The ultimate result depends on the GM and players. The GM can make the players cold, miserable, fatigued and stressed for a very low fantasy game with the new rules, or you can almost ignore some of it.

4. Others have suggested how to deal with the components. Use what you like. As you become familiar with the rules, consider adding more of the components you haven't been using and see if you now find a use for them.

5. Content so far: If you really like the new system, then I would get the 'adventurer's toolkit' and the 'winds of magic' and 'signs of faith' supplements - for the mixture of background, extra rules, extra careers, extra abilities etc. i would say they are the core.

6. The chaos God rules come in two supplements that have a lot of stuff you will want to get anyway, so yes, they are worth it.

7. You don't need miniatures. You probably won't need many standups either, and you don't need them at all. You may find them useful, that's all.

8. As above. The rules allow you run a very gritty game, but they don't prevent you from running a very heroic game if that's want you want.

9. Most 'normal' equipment is not on a card, and doesn't need to be on one. The magic items (which can still be very rare if the GM wishes) don't really need to be on cards either. It just makes them seem a bit more special.

10. I think it's quite complex to read and start out with. I think you need to get a couple of friends - not necessarily all five - and get together, create some characters, fight some battles, refer to the rules (and the excellent rules summaries you've been linked to already) and work out they go together. Try and get everyone, not just the GM, to contribute to interpreting the dice results. (I don't know how familiar you are with this: when you roll the dice, you sort of tell a mini-story to explain what the dice mean. Not just 'yay, I hit', but 'phew - I hit, just, but slipped in the mud at the same time and luckily the bandit I was fighting slipped too'.)

About the basic action cards, don't bother with copies and plastic sleeves and use the A4 bundle, unless you like having 8 extra cards around

Gitzman Gallery has some neat stuff gathered

For the most part, I agree with what you are being advised.

From a background perspective, I have never played Pathfinder, and I played DnD from Basic DnD, all the way to 3rd edition. Tried out Traveler, Twilight 2000 and MERP. MERP is hands down the best time I have had with any RPG.

Anyway, the product for 3e is great. The core set really gives you options to configure a game the way you like. If you are unfamiliar with the Warhammer world, there is enough fluff to get a decent idea on the world. I am only vaguely familiar with Warhammer fluff, all from playing Blood Bowl and Mordheim. The Core set fluff offers much more and drops a lot of information. The information dropped actually makes me hungry for more. I would by a 3e version of the History of the Warhammer world for instance.

The game may seem board gamery because of all the tokens and standups and what not, but it really is not at all. All that stuff are really just aids and options. DnD 3rd was very board gamery. You basically had to play on a mat. 3e has what I believe a very rewarding abstract way of determing distance, and allows you to build a scene and a story yet still operate with some simple mechanics.

So far, I have picked up the Core Set, Signs of Faith, the Adventurer Tool Kit and the GM Tool kit. All have been great products in my mind. I have used my scanner to scan a few items and then printed them for use in my games. There are also some great fan created aides out there. For instance, I also use the UHead player aids that are out there. They are even useful for the GM!

Its a fun game, that in my opinion is also customizable. You get a lot of bang for your buck with the Core Set. Shop around. There are some good deals out there.

D4M0CLES said:

Okay, I'm a fairly new player to this game and I figured I'd share my 2 cents with you on my experiences. I've only been playing for about a month and I love this game. That said, however, there are some problems with it.

I know not everyone will agree with me, but I find the gameboard-like pieces can be a bit distracting at times. Yes, in some instances they can help streamline things but they can also add another layer of things to juggle at the table. Space can also be an issue depending on where you play. My group plays in my living room for comfort's sake (My kitchen/dining room chairs are butt killers) and so space for writing and play materials is at a premium. Thus all the cards, bits, puzzle pieces and so on are just too much of a pain to handle.

On the flavor/fluff side I feel like the books have just the right amount. To me they convey enough of the setting and intended feel of the game without "forcing" you down a particular path. Remember though that the rules are informed by the setting; particularly the magic and faith rules (I'm assuming the Ruinous Powers rules are the same but I haven't actually seen them yet). If you plan on playing in the Warhammer world or a something reasonably close to it then you won't have a problem. If you are looking for something more generic then you might have a little more difficulty with the system.

The game is pretty solid, and baring a few personal annoyances with some things I would heartily recommend the game to anyone looking for something interesing and new. If you are interested in the bits and/or are looking for something right now then buy the core box set and download the rules summary as suggested by others. If you are willing to wait a bit and/or are not interested in all the bits then I would suggest waiting for the Guides; which are designed along the lines of a more traditional pen & paper rpg (And have the side effect of having all the mechanical material of all the current suppliments up till now). I know I plan on buying the Guides as soon as they hit my FLGS.

Anyway, that's my rambling 2 cents.

1- I heard there won't be fluff in the guide... so basically are we getting a half-baked product? Same with Vault... if we decide to buy the components, i heard it won't even support the whole guide, so we'll have to buy the guide, the vault and then the expansion... duplicating a lots of stuff...

There is fluff. However, there isn't as much as you might normally expect. I wouldn't call it 'half-baked'. A lot of the fluff is incremental. For example, Signs of Faith has a *lot* of information about the various preistly cults and vocations. Winds of Magic has a *lot* of information about the Colleges of magick. This information, is only lightly touched upon in the Core Set, however. I think you misunderstood how the upcoming Guide and Vault products work. They are designed to be used together, with the Guide being a book with the information, and the vault having the tokens and cards. If you don't want the components, then you can just buy the Guide and that will work jsut fine. There is no "duplicating" going on, per se.

2- I have 5 players... how am i gonna support those 5 with components if core only gives 3??? Whats the best way without making 3rd a $$$ sink!

A search of the forum will supply the simple answer to your question. You can easily play with 5 players using just the Core Set. The only difficulty really relies around the fact that there are a limited number of Basic Action cards. A few simple suggestions are: have the players share the cards, make your own copies of the card, or have a couple of them write down the information for the basic action cards. Of course, the simple expedient of picking up the Adventurer's Toolkit, which not only contains several new careers to use, but also has an additional set of Basic Action cards will help and is well wroth getting. I also believe that the Players Vault contains Basic Action cards, as well as another copy of a lot of the other cards in case you want to allow PCs to gain duplicate Actions (or want a copy for your NPCs to use). The number of dice is a little limited, so players will need to share unless they pitch in to buy some additional dice packs. In general, players aren't rolling dice at the same time, so it isn't a big deal for the most part in my experience. In essence, it's not really an issue to have 5 players.

3- Whats the pro and con of 3rd edition if we compare it with the simple 2nd (no war intended, dare you )

3rd is more story-driven and story-focused, even through players' gameplay. 3rd is more flexibile for the GM to add modifiers and drive the story. Really, the only thing 2nd has going for it over 3rd is the fact that there's a lot more material available for it. It is a little bit more portable, too.

4- Are really all those components that much useful or needed? so many tokens and stuff...

It's deceptive. Honestly, it doesn't take up as much room as you might think. They are all useful, but a lot of the tracking you could do with paper and pencil, china markers, etc if you'd rather than using the tokens.

5- How is the content so far? Is there a few region supported? Race? Career? Spells and miracles? If you compare it to 2nd, is the content really spread out for selling purpose a la D&D 4e???

The content is still a little sparse, compared to 2nd edition. The game is still new, however, while 2nd has had many years and many supplements released for it. Honestly, each of the supplements released by FFG have been great. I don't think the content is spread out "for selling purposes". The content is spread out so that FFG can focus and provide in-depth information for each of the areas involved. For example, Winds of Magic and the information regarding the Colleges.

6- I heard they are releasing all 4 chaos god fluff/crunch on different box and not releasing it in guide/vault which create even more duplicating... is it true and is that stuff worth it?

Yes, each Chaos God has their own box supplement, and also includes an adventure (related to that chaos god) as well as additional information. Winds of Magic has Tzeentch, plus a plethora of information about magick as well as rules for corruption, additional spells for wizards, and careers; Signs of Faith has Nurgle, with rules for diseases, plus additional blessings for priests and careers, etc. There is nothing "duplicating" between these supplements and the guides, except that I believe the rules for Corruption and Disease are in the GM Guide book. So yes, they are worth it.

7- Is there components/tokens less usefull than others? Miniatures gameplay heavy is out for us and i heard they gives Standup for tracking, which is the same for us. How needed are they? How is the game bloat with all these cards and tokens stacking when preparing for a session?

Well, it depends. Tracking tokens aren't necessarily needed if you're willing to use a pencil and paper. Players could not use the talent and action cards if they want to write down the information on a piece of paper. One of the advantages, though, of using the components, is that players don't have to write stuff down and have all the information easily in front of them on the cards. 3rd is very story and narrative driven. The standups are used primarily to show relative spatial relationships. There is no board or grid map to use. Using the standups (or even miniatures) is not like D&D or 2nd Ed WFRP. No micormanaging which square you move into/through. Characters move in/through ranges relative to others, mostly narratively. So, you shouldn't be worried about "miniatures gameplay heavy" at all. There is an increased set-up time if you are using all the components, although it depends on whether you (as the GM) are doing everything or if your players have their own stuff. Once my players started using their own tokens for tracking, for example, I didn't have to separate and set up piles of tokens for them and instead could leave them in their little box next to me for my own use. Once you've done it a few times, it doesn't really take any longer than an RPG game where you have to set up a map. Instead of a map, you're setting up the play area with the party card and some piles of tracking tokens and an initiative track.

8- Does the system keeps the gritty, low-fantasy theme on? Is it still a fast and furious combat system like the WH40k line, with a dealier feel?

It can if you play it that way. Honestly, it's how you play it. This *is* still the Warhammer world. It is dark and gritty and horrific in setting still.

9- I saw a magic item card, are the rare magic items on cards now? Equipment? What's with me designing magic item and ability with the whole card mecanic??

There are some magic items being introduced on cards, yes. Generic equipment is not on cards, although it would be relatively simple to make cards for them if you wish.

10- How would you rate the system complexity for new games and old time veteran? What would change about it?

Honestly, having run a few demos for random people, some with experience with RPGs and some not ... the most difficult thing for people to understand is the dice pool mechanic. However, after a few rolls everyone starts to understand it. By the end of a single 2-hour session, everyone is able to create and interpret a dice pool for a test. The game is 'easy' on both new players and veterans, in that all of the information is on the cards in front of the player. There is no digging through a rulebook to figure out what you can do, or how something works. It is very story and narrative oriented, which keeps players involved in the story rather than the mechanics. This means the players have less need to know or worry about the minute mechanics of everything to start playing and can enjoy the game while they learn.

Thumbs up Dvang for best answer!!!!!!

You've took your time giving me great answer and i thank you. Let me add we've secured shipping for a brand new Core set box and Adventurer's toolkit!!! Thx to everyone who gave me feedback, actually FFG should thank you because we've bought!

I've got high hope for this product since i do love their WH40K line and think they produce great contents. So far the comments and review interested us so we're looking forward to our first game soon. Already got a nice quick story popping out from a corner of my head... let's put this on paper!

Wish everyone some great games! Thx

I've been game mastering for over 20 years and WFRP is hands down the best system I have ever experienced. On top of that The Old World is by far my favorite setting.

I know some people may not like all the cards, counter etc., but for our group it's really made everything more fresh, plus having all rules at your fingertips just feels right. The many different attacks and actions on cards really flesh out characters.

I just can't praise WFRP 3rd edition enough.