Another point...

Space Marine where pretty impressive armour, they are frontline fighters....want snipers, play Imperial Guard.

S.

Not necessarily. In Codex Compliant Chapters, Tenth company in the Scout company and they do not don normal Power Armor and their whole business is infiltration, intelligence, clandestine operations and sniping. I would say it is a moot point, but since Chapters dedicate an entire Company to it, it is a little more than a non-point.

Just to be a jerk about it, the difference between .308 and 7.62x51mm is not East vs West. It is a measurement in calibre against a measurement in mm, or more commonly civilain variant versus NATO variant. This is the same with .223 and 5.56. The latter NATO variants have a minisculy larger diameter bullet and require more headspace in a chamber. Practically this means that weapons chambered to 7.62x51 can fire both 7.62 AND .308 rounds, but weapons chambered to .308 can ONLY fire .308 (same with 5.56 and .223).

This doesn't pertain to the larger questions in this conversation at all. I am just a stickler about crap like this.

Apologies, continue.

Disagree. The PRIMARY difference between 5.56mm (NATO) and .223 (Remington) is SAMMI Pressures produced during detonation of the cartridge. Though the "miniscule" difference in the chambering allows 5.56mm to be fed .223 and NOT vice-versa safely, it is the pressure difference in the cartridges that is the SAFETY factor for not chambering a 5.56mm into something designed and chambered for .223. Same goes for the 7.62x51 and .308. The newer standards for the 7.62x51 surpass those of the .308 developed pre and during the Viet Nam War. Higher pressures produce flatter and longer trajectories and the ballistics tables with the same weight bullets prove this out.

BOT (Back on Topic), these weapons are set in a time and place where humans and other races of beings have natural AND supernatural means of traveling across the Galaxy at speeds that are NOT more than theoretical by todays current technology. Beings that are hatched out of pods (Orks) or that can craft organic structures through a meditative "singing" (Eldar Bonesingers) and so on. Suspend your premise of comparison to currently employed technologies because it has NO place in this imaginary GAMEworld of the 41st Millenium. Just get over it and move on.....SERIOUSLY.

Just to be a jerk about it, the difference between .308 and 7.62x51mm is not East vs West. It is a measurement in calibre against a measurement in mm, or more commonly civilain variant versus NATO variant. This is the same with .223 and 5.56. The latter NATO variants have a minisculy larger diameter bullet and require more headspace in a chamber. Practically this means that weapons chambered to 7.62x51 can fire both 7.62 AND .308 rounds, but weapons chambered to .308 can ONLY fire .308 (same with 5.56 and .

FFG keeps FUBARing this attempt at editing.

In response to Korvis' comment, No, I dont think we are in disagreement at all. My main beef was that the difference are not some sort of subjective "East" vs. "West" argument. I was aware that pressure played a part in those differences, but not to the extent you have described. So, thank you for that. I consider myself newly knowledged.

Another point...

Space Marine where pretty impressive armour, they are frontline fighters....want snipers, play Imperial Guard.

S.

Not necessarily. In Codex Compliant Chapters, Tenth company in the Scout company and they do not don normal Power Armor and their whole business is infiltration, intelligence, clandestine operations and sniping. I would say it is a moot point, but since Chapters dedicate an entire Company to it, it is a little more than a non-point.

Also, the Deathwatch aren't just frontline fighters. They are equal parts the Expendables, the SAS and the Men In Black. Covert ops fall right in their balliwick, and I've run missions with kill teams dropped in in scout armour more times than I can conveniently count. We finished one pretty recently, as a matter of coincidence; attacking a Tau logistics facility (surrounded by drone security perimeters with energy-scanners - so the players pointedly took stripped-down scout armour and SP weapons with naery a battery or circuit between the lot of them and snuck right up to the access gate before they opened fire...)

3 year thread necro! that is some going.

Someone has to do it.

Wrong section anyway. From OP, belongs in house rules.

If you don't like the sniper rifles, increase all sniper rifle ranges by 100m, or allow a talent that increases all range increments by 150% after taking an aim action. Also remember:

Astartes Sniper Rifle (Needle/Crystal thing)- less sniper rifle, more tool of assassination. Good for dealing with traitor guardsmen commanders when in camp, Tau Ethereals, and senior Tau Fire Warriors who neglected the battle armour training in favour of advanced infantry specialty.

Stalker Boltgun- Designated Marksman rifle. Add 100m to range increment and targeter, becomes sniper rifle. Good multi-role weapon. Can fire on the run with accuracy- unlike any .50 calibre rifle you care to name (yes I know bolters are 0.75 cal. I'm illustrating a point).

Lascannon- Anti-material sniper rifle- also, anti-big-bug rifle during Tyranid engagements. Can NOT fire on the run. This is the .50 cal rifle (or 20mm rifle) equivalent. Also good for shooting traitor sentinel pilots through viewports, or for

Relic Stalker-pattern single shot heavy bolter that you discuss with the GM and he decides to allow- custom job granted by the Deathwatch, because you are the single best sniper this side of the Jericho Gate.

That's when you can throw around numbers like 1200m range, or base the weapon off of an Exitus. Until then, nope. Also, shame on you for your three year necro.

With a range of 200m the Exitus has a very silly range, I upped in my game to 500m...sounded more reasonable...a max range of 800m was just not good enough

OK, so I had a player just use the Astartes Sniper Rifle for the first time and the damage seems abysmally low. Let me know if I did everything right.

Targets and hits a single Ork Boy in the right arm. No AP. TB 8 (4 after Felling (1))

Does 5 damage; 1 damage after TB 4.

Ork makes a toughness test at -25 putting it at >20 to succeed +10 for Unnatural Toughness, >30 to succeed.

Rolls in the 50s. Failure. Roll 1d10 Impact damage due to Toxic quality. Roll 2.

Total 3 damage?? That can't be right.

Did he use Aim, and if he did how many DoS did he get.

Remember Accurate gives you 1d10 extra damage per 2 DoS, for max 2d10 extra damage.

Otherwise your math seems correct to me. But don't take it for granted, just woke up and getting ready for work.

Ahhh.... totally forgot about accurate. He did use aim. But he rolled a 91.

Ahhh.... totally forgot about accurate. He did use aim. But he rolled a 91.

Well then that's your issue. He barely grazed the target.

I don't think it should have been a -25 Test though. It's based on how much damage gets THROUGH (in this case, 1).

another misreading on my part. Thank you.

If he used Aim he should have gotten another +10 for the Accurate equality, and thus possibly another degree of success, and so another 1d10.

Impossible to know since I don't know how many DoS's he got.

Anyway sniper weapons (or any Basic weapon with Accurate) needs at least 4 degrees of success to do its full +2d10 in DW.

So a BS 50 sniper with a full-action aim, assuming no range or other modifiers, has a chance to hit of 50 + 10 (standard attack) + 20 (full-action aim) + 10 (aiming with an Accurate weapon) = 90% and needs to roll a 50 or less to do 3d10 + whatever the weapon's damage bonus is + the Mighty Shot that any sniper needs.

So, he only half-action aimed, and only got a +10 for doing so.