Hi there!

I was curious if anyone here has considered drawing up some stats for the almighty Bloodthirster? I remember seeing some stats for it in the older version Warhammer Fantasy RPG but I doubt that they'd carry over even though the rules are very similar. I remember the rules stating that such a beast would be such a behemoth that not even the strongest PC's would be able to stand against it! Fortunately for us, we can play as Space Marines and such a threat seems worthy of a Primary Objective to take one out!

Has anyone considered any stats?

also, has anyone used a Bloodthirster in their games yet? Any stories?

Thanks!

Hmm, probably start with 100 WS And ALL the Melee Talents. And anything like Frenzy and such. At least 100 wounds. 70 or 80 toughness? Possibly Unnatural X2 or 3?

Strength similar to toughness.

I've had one written up for a while... I'll try and find it and post it up when I get home from work.

Thank you, NO-1, that would be AWESOME!

Right, found it. And It's brought fiends.

Bloodletters
Bloodletters, also known as the Warmongers of Khorne and countless other names, are Khorne’s Lesser Daemons, the foot soldiers in his vast legions. Each is a warrior of terrifying prowess, armed with weapons of unholy sharpness and infernal lethality.
They are spite and wrath and fury incarnate, their flesh the colour of spilt blood or dried gore, their bodies corded with warp-spawned muscle and their faces twisted in a permanent snarl of hatred.

WS BS S T Ag Int Per WP Fel
64 24 48 (8) 40 (8) 48 (4) 32 (3) 48 (4) 48 (4) 16 (1)

Movement: 4/8/12/24; Wounds: 24

Skills: Awareness (Per), Dodge (Ag), Psyniscience (Per), Speak Language (Daemonic) (Int), Speak Language (All) (Int)

Talents: Berserk Charge, Blademaster, Crushing Blow, Crippling Strike, Frenzy, Furious Assault, Resistance (Psychic Powers).

Traits: Brutal Charge, Daemonic (TB 8), Dark Sight, Daemonic Presence, Embodiment of Slaughter*, Fear 3, From Beyond, Natural Weapon (Claws, Teeth and Horns), The Stuff of Nightmares, Unnatural Strength (x2), Warp Instability

Daemonic Presence: The scent of blood and sulphur, and the distant sounds of battle accompany a Bloodletter everywhere it goes. All characters within 24 metres of a Bloodletter suffer a -10 penalty on Willpower Tests.

Weapons: Hellblade (2d10+14 R; Pen 6; Tearing, Unbalanced, Warp Weapon)

*Embodiment of Slaughter (Trait): Daemons of Khorne are the aethyric manifestations of rage, fury and the desire to kill. For them, unending rage is as natural as breathing is to a human. A creature with this trait can enter a Frenzy as a Free Action.

Flesh Hounds
Khorne’s Implacable Hunters, the Flesh Hounds roam the Immaterium seeking the enemies of the Blood God, and anything else they find along the way. Once they have the scent of their prey, there is nothing that will stop their hunt.
Unnatural beasts, almost reptilian in appearance, yet with the demeanour of hungry wolves, their hides are as tough as mesh armour, and their powerful jaws are set with rows of dagger-like fangs. Their most distinctive trait, however, are the bulky brass and iron collars that seem bolted to their necks, or even growing from the flesh itself. These Collars of Khorne drive away the cowardly magic of Khorne’s enemies, providing a potent ward against psychic powers, sorcery and similar methods unbefitting a warrior.

WS BS S T Ag Int Per WP Fel
56 - 48 (8) 32 (6) 48 (4) 24 (2) 64 (6) 40 (4) 8 (0)

Movement: 10/20/30/60; Wounds: 24
Skills: Awareness +10 (Per), Psyniscience +10 (Per), Tracking +20 (Int)

Talents: Berserk Charge, Crippling Strike, Frenzy, Furious Assault, Resistance (Psychic Powers), Talented (Tracking)

Traits: Brutal Charge, Daemonic (TB 6), Dark Sight, Daemonic Presence, Embodiment of Slaughter*, Fear 3, From Beyond, Natural Armour (Scaled Hide), Improved Natural Weapon (Claws and Fangs, see below), Size (Hulking), The Stuff of Nightmares, Unnatural Senses (64m), Unnatural Strength (x2), Warp Instability

Daemonic Presence: In the presence of Khorne’s Hounds, the feeling of being hunted is ever-present, and the snarls and howls of a pack of wild dogs fill the air. All characters within 20 metres of a Flesh Hound suffer a -10 penalty on Willpower Tests.

Weapons: Fangs and Claws (1d10+8 R; Tearing)

Armour: Scaled Hide (All 4)

Equipment: Collar of Khorne

Collar of Khorne: Great brass-and-iron collars adorn many of Khorne’s Daemons and Mortal followers alike, protecting them from the attacks of psykers and sorcerers alike. Any psychic power targeted at a creature wearing a Collar of Khorne suffers a -50 penalty on its Focus Power Test.

Bloodthirsters
Rage Incarnate. High-Handed Slayers. Lords of Slaughter. Wrath Given Form. By these names and more are Khorne’s Greater Daemons known. They are towering avatars of death and destruction, roaring behemoths of warfare bound into terrifying form. There are few alive who can stand before their might and survive; fewer who can triumph against such a monstrosity.
Their massive armoured and muscular bodies contain unrestrained physical might, their contorted faces exhibit nothing but rage and malice, and every aspect of their bodies is a living instrument of death, from their great tusks and fangs, to their horns and claws, the talons of their mighty wings, their iron-shod hooves, and simply their mass and raw ferocity. As if that was not enough, however, they wield great and terrible weapons with which to slay in Khorne’s name. Massive axes and swords of vast power, forged in the flames of the Blood God’s fury and containing the bound essence of other mighty daemons are commonplace amongst Khorne’s Greater Daemons, but long barbed whips, throwing axes and other tools of destruction aside are also employed.
When a Bloodthirster appears on a world, reality shudders under its presence, the abhorrence of such a creature causing the laws of nature to rebel nearby. The arrival of such a monstrous creation upon a battlefield results in panic as men flee for their lives or blaze away with whatever weapons are to hand in the desperate hope of driving off such a deadly foe.

WS BS S T Ag Int Per WP Fel
88 32 64 (24) 56 (20) 56 (5) 64 (6) 64 (6) 72 (7) 32 (3)

Movement: 8/16/24/48 or 10/20/30/60 when Flying; Wounds: 160

Skills: Awareness +10 (Per), Command +20 (Fel), Dodge +10 (Ag), Forbidden Lore (Daemons) +20 (Int), Forbidden Lore (Warp) +20 (Int), Intimidate +20 (S), Psyniscience +10 (Per), Scholastic Lore (Tactica Imperialis) +20 (Int), Speak Language (All) +10 (Int), Tactics (All) +20 (Int)

Talents: Battle Rage, Berserk Charge, Blademaster, Combat Master, Crippling Strike, Crushing Blow, Disturbing Voice, Dual Strike, Flesh Render, Frenzy, Furious Assault, Hammer Blow, Killing Strike, Lightning Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Melee Weapon Training (Primitive), Precise Blow, Preternatural Speed, Resistance (Psychic Powers), Strong-minded, Sure Strike, Swift Attack, Talented (Command), Talented (Intimidate), Thunder Charge, True Grit, Two Weapon Wielder (Melee), Unarmed Master, Unarmed Warrior, Whirlwind of Death

Traits: Brutal Charge, Daemonic (TB 20), Dark Sight, Daemonic Presence, Embodiment of Slaughter*, Fear 4, Flyer (10), From Beyond, Fuelled By Slaughter, Improved Natural Weapons (Itself, see below), Size (Massive), The Stuff of Nightmares, Touched by the Fates (3), Unnatural Strength (x4), Unnatural Toughness (x3), War Given Form, Warp Instability

Daemonic Presence: Reality rebels when a Bloodthirster is near, causing objects to bleed and heat up for no reason, enhancing the sounds of battle to the point where it is almost deafening, and inspiring inexplicable feelings of rage within all creatures. All characters within 72 metres of a Bloodthirster suffer a -10 penalty on Willpower Tests.

Fuelled by Slaughter: Every time a Bloodthirster slays a living creature, it regains 1d10 wounds.

War Given Form: A Bloodthirster may take talents with the Adeptus Astartes prerequisite, so utterly destructive are these terrifying daemons.

Weapons: Horns, Tusks, Fangs, Claws, Hooves, and sheer Ferocity (1d10+26 R or I), Axe of Khorne (3d10+33 R; Pen 9; Felling (1), Tearing, Warp Weapon), Whip of Khorne (10m; 1d10+26 R; Pen 6; Snare, Flexible, Tearing. Range is the reach of the weapon.)

Armour: Bronze Armour of Khorne (All 10, +20 to all tests to resist psychic effects, counts AP as double against psychic or warp attacks that deal damage, and retains full armour against the Warp Weapon effect)

NO-1, YOU ROCK!!!!!!! Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate it!

Now about the Bloodthirster....Sweet Christmas it would take an army plus a couple of orbital strikes to bring that thing down! I'm already trying to come up with some way my players can defeat that thing without resorting to direct combat.....hmmmm.

Seriously, it would be fun to playtest a battle between this behemoth vs a squad of maybe 4 Daemon Princes (one from each god). That'd be a fight. How many PC's do you think it'd take to defeat it directly?

On a different note, great job on Into the Storm! I find myself re-reading the orks section often since it's such a fun chapter. You should let us know what other chapters you've written on other works (after they're released, of course).

Thanks!

My suggestion? Heavy weapons. Lots of Heavy Weapons.

Exoviper said:

Many, unless they're extremely smart and/or extremely capable. Anti-tank weaponry, if not tanks, plus high-rank Librarians, and careful use of defensive Squad Mode abilities is recommended, so long as you've got enough Cohesion (or a good enough squad leader) to weather the effects of a Fear (4) creature.

Oh, and as many Black Templar Assault Marines as you can muster, working in solo mode, as Righteous Zeal grants improved melee attacks and resistance to harm against Daemons.

Exoviper said:

I have, and will continue to do so - rather than list it all here (and derail this thread further), I'll just say this: I did a Designer Diary previewing the main section I worked on for Edge of the Abyss.

your bloodthrister is very very nice, almost love from first sight <3

sadly it was killed in first round by Blood Angel Assault on rank 8. i cried... such baby fell in 1st round.

So if i my suggest pimp this baby initiative up to sky, or add another mini rule: always wins initiative.

How on earth did he deal that much damage?

If it was fury, give it the trait "Protected by fell powers" which would give it immunity to fury.

Makes scary things much much more scary.

SomVone said:

I've found that simply changing Righteous Fury is a more effective way of doing that, rather than applying a patch talent to certain creatures. The method I use causes a 1d5 roll on the appropriate Critical Hit table if the attack rolls 1 or more 10s (and confirms the Righteous Fury as normal) - this doesn't cause any Critical Damage to accumulate, nor is it reduced by True Grit, much as the way Righteous Fury works against vehicles in Into The Storm. As a Bloodthirster has The Stuff of Nightmares as one of its traits, it's largely immune to minor Critical Hits anyway...

if it comes to Emperors Fury we only use Dark Heresy rules. We tested fight vs. Bloodthrister with both our house ruled EF and original broken DW. both cases: 1st round is also last. And yes BA ultimate destroyer of worlds combo is plain sick and boring: frenzy, Blood frenzy rank 8, 2h chainsword, flesh render, our record is 34 additional hits due to EF from one attack (RPG fun killer)

on funny note, if Bloodthrister would win initiative he will be problem for whole kill-team.

also if i remember right sacred number of khorne is 8, so we changed deamon to 888hp. just for fun.

boruta666 said:

So... because a particular combo of a top-rank character can, against the odds, one-hit-kill a Greater Daemon of Khorne... it's not tough enough?

As it is, being surprised that Rank 8 characters are really, really deadly is just asking for trouble... beyond that, there's a reason I've moved away from Righteous Fury with a potentially infinite payoff... it prevents the possibility of cracking a planet with a chainsword or bolter. It also has three Fate Points (though I was tempted to give it eight), which could, for example, be burnt to avoid death, and thus allow it to fight for more than that first round, even if it does get one-hit-killed.

It's not meant to be unkillable, of course - enough Bloodthirsters have been banished, even only considering the Imperium, that we know they're not unstoppable. Of course, due to its Fuelled By Slaughter special rule, it actually fares better against armies than it does against small squads of elite troopers, as it can far more quickly kill many Imperial Guardsman (to replenish lost wounds from things like lascannons) than it can 5 much tougher enemies, and its Fear (4) is much more effective against weaker foes than Astartes.

Well, for what its worth, I like your bloodthirster, reading the whole thing again, i think its sufficiently "crap your pants scary" as it is!

Thank you for sharing .

I shall call the big one "Bitey"

Dulahan said:

Erm, I'll just make sure I'm faster than the slowest people in the group and gtfo of town... planet... system. As stated, he isn't going to be hanging around somewhere chilling and stabbing kittens for fun and amusment. When one of these turns up, usually there is a massive warp incursion and a somewhat infinate amount of very bad things which just keep pouring out of the big hole in reality.

# Bloodletters, the primary Lesser Daemons of Khorne, are ugly, horned humanoids with cloven hooves who tote blood-drinking battleaxes or swords known as Hellblades, which are forged at the foot of the Throne of Skulls; and who wear armour of daemonic brass. They enter horrific frenzies in battle.

# Flesh Hounds are monstrous and ferocious vaguely canine creatures, notorious for their supernatural ability to track down their chosen prey. They bear enchanted collars that make them highly resitant to magic or psychic influences.

# Juggernauts are massive steeds made of living metal whose blood is liquid fire, generally gifted as mounts to favored champions of Khorne.

In 1 round you BA killed the blodthirster but just for notice they will never been alone.With a Mag 20 to 30 Bloodletters or two, two Mag 20 flehhound horde, an other of bloodletters on juggernaut for Mag 15 to 20 and eventualy a bloodletter champion on juggernaut as elite i'm pretty sure the bloodthirster will live more than one round. And btw it will better reflect the reallity of a great demon appearance. And don't forget also the thousand other demons coming the real world when the deamonic invasion begin.

Just a question don't have my book right now but don't you need sanctified weaponnery to be really effective against demons?

If a single Assault Blood Angel can kill that thing in one turn, then there is obviously something wrong with the upper level of the game.

Peacekeeper_b said:

To be fair, fights against master level enemies are generally short kill or be killed affairs. If the Bloodthirster gets to land the first attacks, one or two players wil go down. And my feeling is that Rank 8 PCs are about 200 pts characters in the table-top.

Anyway, it's not exactly the usual boss level fights you see in other games but that's how it currently works.

Alex

PS Too many talents and traits for my taste. It's all accurate, I guess, but I tend to overlook/forget that creature X also has talent Y or trait Z easily during play.

ak-73 said:

Part of that is presentation - laid out like that, it can all become a bit of a blur; rearranging it a bit and summarising many of the talents and traits in a clearer manner so they're more obvious would, perhaps, help that.

Streamlined List. I have removed quite a few things which would have to be worked into the stat line instead - give +10 to Strength, Intimidate+40, Command+30, WS 95, +2 to all listed Weapon damages instead.

Talents: Battle Rage, Berserk Charge, Combat Master, Frenzy, Hammer Blow, Killing Strike, Lightning Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Melee Weapon Training (Primitive), Preternatural Speed, Resistance (Psychic Powers), Strong-minded, Sure Strike, Thunder Charge, True Grit, Two Weapon Wielder (Melee), Unarmed Master, Whirlwind of Death

Traits: Brutal Charge, Daemonic (TB 20), Daemonic Presence*, Dark Sight, Embodiment of Slaughter*, Fear 4, Flyer (10), From Beyond, Fuelled By Slaughter*, Improved Natural Weapons (Itself, see below), Size (Massive), The Stuff of Nightmares, Touched by the Fates (3), Unnatural Strength (x4), Unnatural Toughness (x3), Warp Instability

Please note that I find the original stat line just fine , only too complex for my personal taste. In fact I find even the above too complex and possibly needing to be dumbed down further for ease of play (perhaps berserk & brutal charge whose impact is not so important for the Bloodthirster). Posting this for other gamers who likewise are willing to sacrifice some (admittedly cool) detail for the sake of ease and speed.

Alex

PS Actually I thought it should read Melee Weapon Training (Universal) instead. And shouldn't be Ambidextrous on the list too?

Peacekeeper_b said:

And yes there is something very wrong with end games, my experience tells rank 7 and up missions need complete overhaul of enemies, equipment and talents, its either we kill them in one round or they will kill us before we act. As my observation goes certain player combinations can unleash too much damage, and soon it will be elites with 200hp just so they can survive one attack. Im forced to add more and more house rules couse of inbalance and plain stupidity of system.

it should be called "Deathwatch: make your own house rules"... still i love it...

Cool stats No1, I have just done one of my quick mental conversions to my BRP based system and they are very nasty beasties indeed. (In my system the Bloodthirster converts as having 150% Damage Reduction ... which is pretty scary to say the least.)

I agree however with Peacekeeper, that sounds very broken, unless it was some kind of amazing one in a million shot or something (I once saw a PC in MERP fluke out a bow shot and take down a dragon in one hit ... which was very unlikely indeed in that system). Mind you all the 40K rpgs have been based around a very flawed and semi-broken system imo. I found DH for example ground to a halt for us because we had to keep adding house rule after house rule just to get the blasted thing to run semi-smoothly, until eventually we just gave up with the system and used a BRP based (slightly house tweaked) system that works as well for Space Marines as it does for lowly grunts.

The very fact that the three separate 'games' can't easily cross over says it all.

boruta666 said:

Could you please post the stats for the BA? I'd like to check the math using the DH Righteous Fury rules.

Alex

Okay I have rolled up a Rank 7 Black Templar Assault and put him against N0-1_H3r3's Bloodthirster.

The Marine has no chance unless he parries the attacks he can and his storm shield holds off the others. Otherwise the Bloodthirster can kill him with one strike.

To have a chance in a real fight the Templar needs a Deathwatch Relic, the Armour of the Remorseless Crusader and an Iron Halo. For 160 Requisition Points, Hero renown.

Please note the following: without preternatural speed (rank 8, assault marine) it's nearly impossible. Either you get charged by the Bloodthirster and have to survive a full round of attacks (he has that talent after all) or you charge and make one attack which almost certainly will not finish him off and then have to survive a full round of attacks. And who goes first on second round is an open question.

So my impression is: Only a Rank 8 Assault with Preternatural Speed and enough Relics/Shields has a chance one-on-one against this thing.

Sounds about right. Good job, N0-1_H3r3.

Alex

black templar assault ? is that a joke ? u actualy can make assault other than Blood Angel ? (sarcasm filter on gentlemans)

first of all, super destroyer of worlds combo works with Blood Angels only.

to make it quick: chainsword(tearing) + flesh render(tearing) + Blood Frenzy Blood Angels Solo Chapter ability rank 8 (RF 8+, pen+4, re-roll damage dice)

so basically u have 6d10 chose one die (with solo ability re-roll) and one of them must be 8+. so u may invoke RF withouth end...

broken if u ask me.