The clues in the title, right? IF it's xeno, surely it can get you into trouble...

And what about the other meshes? Are they also of xeno origin?

Really depends. Xeno could be a alien beast hide and net necessarily an alien creation. Or something.

Or Xeno could be a planet. I mean we have a hive named Hades, a planet named Redemption and one called Armageddon. I think there is even a planet called Murder.

But yeah, Xeno Mesh, as in the book, is a alien created piece of armour, so technically heretical. But easy to hide.

I tend to think of the xeno mesh as if the basic materials are salvaged from things like eldar guardian armours, or by all means any other wellcrafted flexible xeno armors. Then it is rebuilt and refitted for humans. So it's not actually xeno tech, it's more like the armor pieces are considered a natural resource in this regard, and the xenos themselves are a sort of hazard that has to be overcome in order to harvest the valuable materials they contain (or rather are contained in)... I imagine that the techpriest who invented this explanation was a smug selfrighteous bastard.

I'd imagine it's one of those "depends on who wears it and who sees it" things - most nobles and many acolytes would get away with it, common soldiers looting the battlefield... not so much.

voidstate said:

It's ambiguous at best. I just checked both the Dark Heresy core rulebook and the Rogue Trader core rulebook, and the latter case seems to imply that mesh armor can, in fact, be 100% human in origin; the only problem is finding facilities sophisticated enough to manufacture the stuff (will probably have to go to a forge world that's capable of micro-scale manufacturing).

If it were me making the call, I'd go with the Rogue Trader definition and implications, if only because it's a bit more up-to-date. Of course, this includes the stats, too, where xeno mesh only has an armor value of 3 rather than 4.

-Kirov

@Peacekeeper_b
What have soured your mood to the point that you start "depends on" answers?

@Topic
Funny thing, never thought about that problem. I would say as long as there ist no "active effect" of something, it might be alright to have it. Of course, as soon as some-one with enough pull comes across and starts to make things a topic, you will be in troulbe.

GM effect: All is fine as long as do not run into some firebrand group (Redemptionists; Monodominants; Hardline imperial Preachers) which might start to go and cry a hue or (worse) try to gather a lynch mob or start some trial or something

Gregorius21778 said:

I blame Justin Bieber.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Who?

Sounds like some kind of heretic... where's my Meathammer?

Alex

Hmm well In my game I've figured the "xeno mesh" and the other mesh armors listed as standard armors in the Imperium (core rulebook) are made of.. wait BY humans. The designs however were based on xeno ones (especially Eldar), but the AdMech reverse engineered it and made safe human-made versions free of xeno corruption for your convenience.

However to my player asking to get best quality xeno mesh I've told him they are only available on Eldar Craft Worlds (yes he has Forbidden Lore: Xenos now), and that they would need to be custom made for him since it's best quality. Unfortunately he has not been able to locate any such Craft World yet...

(The availability on Best Qual Xeno Mesh is Extremely Rare as outlined in Ascension. ) I don't allow anything above Very Rare to be obtained with a simple die roll, no matter where they are.

So for now the armor everyone are wearing is Good Quality Xeno Mesh, for that 5 armor against the first attack.

They are also wanting best Qual. Carapace since I described it as so form-fitting and comfortable you can wear it under lose clothing without anyone noticing. (Or at least not easily).

Power Armor has not tempted anyone, both because of the ridiculously low battery life, and because of the inability to remain inconspicous in it.

Xeno Mesh is not entirely heretical. Most such armors available within the bounds of the Imperium are copies of xenos designs; which the Ad Mech will have ruled as "acceptable" technologies. This happens often enough, with the Jakaero digi-weapons as another prime example. After all, not only is the tech tolerated, so is the species.

-=Brother Praetus=-

voidstate said:

It probably can, but on the same account even the guy selling it probably doesn' know where the heck it came from and the average imperial citizen will just look at it slightly crosseyed and have no **** idea except that its some funny looking bubble wrap cloth, must be dirty foreigners. Look through the careers and see just how many of them don't have Forbidden Lore- Xenos and you're pretty safe for the most part.

40K doesnt have shopping malls with nice little labels on it saying that your mesh armour is made by genuine flower eating happy space elves (or blood crazed rapist space elves for that matter) or even if its made properly by some malnourished helot on a forge world making half a throne a day and the occassional beating.

About the only thing you should worry about is being 'different' and that can be bad when you're just trying to not stand out sometimes.

According to 40k lore mesh armour was invented by the Eldar and they continue to be the true masters of the craft. Eventually the Imperium managed to reverse-engineer the stuff and began to manufacture their own sets of mesh armour, though it is at best a pale immitation of the Eldar-crafted product.

So in my game I took the word "Xeno" in the description literally, especially since it is rated at 4 armour (comparable to Imperial Guard Flak, which has the same protective value in the TT game as Eldar Guardian mesh armour). By comparison the other mesh armours listed without the "xeno" designation are only rated at 3 armour. Seems consistent with the lore.

Now if you happen to serve a radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor it might be your team's "standard issue" when in the field. On the other hand if you serve a Monodominant Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor then chances are you are investigating the first team....

I tend to follow the Jack Draco reference in Inquisiion war when it comes to Mesh armour. Namely that mesh armour is available t purchase by those with the thrones to burn and is indeed effective (AR 4), and tend to ignore the Xeno part unless necessary. After all the Imperium probbly copied the design during the Great Crusade, when the relations between imperium and other alien races wer ea bit...er less genocidal. Additionally I gave my players the option of getting their grubby little paws on it at one point but they opted for Best quality Guard Flak instead. Namely to avoid the murderous looks from the hardline Monodominant party members, and comprable prices. The imperium Mesh arour is just too expensive to make for guardsmen, but a Spyre Noble from a hive world would have a blast spending the thrones on such distinctive armour.

Another example of xenos origin equipment is the chameloline cloak. Again its a piece of eldar equipment that the imperium has made for themselves. Though I solved that one by pointing out that the imperial version didn't work the same way as the eldar one. The eldar one was psychoactive and required a psi-rating to use (and a minor power as well), while the Imperium version used light bending polymers whose design (but not manufacture) was from the dark age of Technology.

Greetings,

while preparing something else, I stumbled about an entry in the Radicals Handbook, p24 and 25.

Bearing a weapon of alien manufacure is no crime in itself, not at least for those such as Inquistors, Rogue Traders and others of such rank. For the common citizen (it is)

In the RH, it is further stated that xenos items forbidden for even Inquisitors include such of races "in particular those tools of uncertain provenance or recovered from alien races deliberately purged from the galaxy."

So, I would say that it is about "where is that armour from?" and the discussions shifts to "is this race under deliberate attempts of being purged?"

Personal opinion: Most xeno mesh will not qualify for this disclaimer. In conclusion, I would say acolythes are safe to wear them. Wearing them (openly) while concealing as common citizen might be a bad idea (since the armour might draw to much attention)

Gregorius21778 said:

Yup. Note that "alien races deliberately purged from the galaxy." Refers to those already gone, such as the previous occupants of the Calixis Sector which falls into the category Forbidden Lore: Xenos. Ork Shootas or Eldar Shuriken Catapults is from races not purged from the galaxy, and thus not strictly forbidden for Inquisitors etc.

Hi Friend,

personally, I would not lean to much on the "already extinct" thing. The Slaught (for example) are still at large, but I think their "equipment" would be a prime example for things even an Inquisitor would be banned to use.

Tryanids would fall into the same category to me, as well as certain deveices of the eldar (especially those with lots of spikes attached to them).

Might I suggest that the reason its some equipment is heretical is because the technology is heretical. To consider that some equipement might be superior to STC designs is unthinkable. Such items may even contain a tainted or corrupt machine spirit. However when you are talking about clothing and conventional (non-powered) armor there is no threat, it is no more dangerous than wearing the hides of an indiginous beast or Xeno crafted jewelry (well maybe not Eldar crystals...)

I will admit it is an odd inclusion for armor in a game so centered around xenophobia, it could probably be safely removed, in fact, how many Xeno opponents wear xenomesh in the published modules?

Gregorius21778 said:

Well it would certainly be radical - but Slaught and Tyranid are most than just regular xenos, they are extremely alien and their technology is often organic and incompatible with the human form, thus it requires mutation or gene-manipulation in order to use them, which in itself is heretical as it violates the sanctity of the human form.

Never mind the Space Marine Gene-Seed, 40k is full of such contradictions...

But other "normal" technological equipment such as shuriken catapults, Tau plasma rifles and Ork gunz would be ok for an Inquisitor to use, although it would probably not be anything he brags about.

Friend of the Dork said:

I recall a short story from one of the older 40k rulebooks about an inquisitor who picked up and began using a Tyranid deathspitter without any deliberate forethought. IIRC, the deathspitter was luring him to use it psychically, so maybe he had some kind of dormant mutation, though. If you want to allow players to use Tyranid biotech without any special prerequisites, I think there's support for such ideas in the fluff. Doesn't mean it's a good idea, mind you.

The story suggested that by touching the weapon, the inquisitor was being connected to the Tyranid hive mind. If the GM wants to play around with such ideas, there are more threats than simple heresy to be considered in using such alien technology.

Of course, if you really don't want players picking up such biotech and want to fall back the whole "genetically incompatible" excuse, it's also easy enough to overrule such fluff as this story by saying the Tyranids have since evolved their weaponry to be incompatible. The Tyranid race has certainly been through a few changes since that story was published. At the end of the day, it's all about what kind of story you want to tell.

Fluff wise tyranid weaponry *has* evolved to be incompatible. Pretty much everything is fused to the wielder and thus either powered, kept alive, or ammunition generated through them. To pick up and use a Tyranid weapon would require that the weapon be fused to the user in some way, and the user is able to do so and keep it alive so. At least this is by memory, I have never delved hugely deep into 'nids, though I should really. Hm.

But yeah, its GM fiat - if you want to let them have some interfacery with nid tech, you can, but its not really designed for that. Nids don't "go and pick up their weapons"; they are flat out born with them.

Space Marine gene seed was made by the Emprah, and since the Emprah is Holy and All Knowing (now that he can't say otherwise), all that he did is proper by default. Largely though mutation *is* bad because its tied to cause and uncontrolled mutation is really really really nasty. Stable genetic mutations have and are accepted, and you see evidence of Bio-Magos (or whatever you want to call them) playing around with stuff now and than. RT book shows the gene warrior, orgyns are stable mutations that are accepted, humans that have evolved under different planetary situations.etc.etc.etc.

Its not so much inconsistent as they are paranoid as hell. A "pure" human form is, well, pure. A mutated form shows sign of Chaotic intervention, which is really really bad. Stable mutation lines = okay, unstable mutation just popping up = oh god the terror. Its cause of these views that massive defiance of the human form via gene manipulation is bad, as is blending human with xenos, since it says the other side is essentially better.

Anyways as for other equipment of the races... Ork weaponry would be generally fairly difficult to use. Its represented, but eh, its up to the GM really. Fluffwise the reason a lot of Ork tech works is simply because they think it will work. It doesn't make any logical sense when actually examined and is incapable of being used, toss it in the hand of an ork (or sufficent numbers, it works fine). But yeah honestly the "okay for an Inquisitor to use" isn't a broad brush. Okay for him to use in so far that he can use it, yes, okay for him to use in so far that he would be beyond reproach? No. Your going to get viewed as radical if your using Xeno tech, period, and that means you can get yourself purged by other Inquisitional factions for it.

I think Xeno mesh sits in the same dubious grey area that Jokaero Digital Weapons sit in...

I see it similar to Earth Scotch Whisky... (bear with me with this...)

Proper Scotch comes from Scotland hence the name. However you can get whiskeys all round the globe, a few of them even saying they are Scotch like.

Back to 40k, true mesh armour is Eldar in origin (correct?) but I imagine a few alien races conquered by the Imperium used it. Now I assume of all the alien armours seen, it was the one most easily copied and semi-mass produced by the Imperium. Since it is not as bulky as flak it would have been seen as a good armour for those with money to afford it.

So when you go equipped with mesh, you have the 40k equivalent of cheap knockoff Japanese scotch but not really heretical. (I suspect the Good & Best quality examples are maybe alien in origin, maybe even Eldar)

To quote the rulebook (p145) "Of alien design, and sometimes manufacture."

Baldrick said:

Yeah this is my take on it too. In fact, since Best Quality Xeno Mesh has availability Extremely Rare (thus Ascension level), I have decided it is not available on the open human market and can only be aquired from Eldar Craftworlds, planets with regular contact with Eldar (few and far between), and maybe the Cold Trade. I also assume that Best Quality armor in general must be custom-tailored to the individual and thus either specifically ordered or retrofitted by a master armorer. Also, since the Eldar Craftworld mail-order system includes a free planetary invasion, my acolytes have yet to aquire any despite having the money.

I also don't allow them BQ Carapace, which has the same availability, unless they go to Mars or some other major AdMech planet to get a custom-made form-fitting Carapace good enough to hide underneath clothing.