So, given that Stark and Bara were given a boost with their boxes, and for Bara at least recent cards.

Do Targ and Lanni need a box? If so, what should go in it?

For Targ, if ffg were to put out a box I would hope it would have:

Anceint Arakh

AFoD Jorah Mormont

AHoTh Dothraki Longbowman

Bribes from the East (I think thats the title, it was an event that flipped attachments between 2 characters)

Seeress of Shadows (the one that returns attachments to hand)

5KE Hatchlings and Dragons (5KE had a fun ambush mechanic, would like to see that revived).

Trip to Market

Pentoshi (I forget the actual name here) - but a variant on an old card that allows for out of house attachments.

An Illyrio that is playable. I actually would like to see a Targ deck filled with unique characters. This means we should have Illyrio that is playable.

ITE Pyat Pree (He was fun).

ITE Varys (Another fun challenge replacement guy).

ARoK Dany

Naathi Handmaiden

As for Lanni: AhoTa Tyrion Lannister, as well as the unique clansmen from that set. I only played Lanni a little when I made a Talons Clansmen deck.

Well, like I said in my thread I started the other day, I've been out of the loop since GenCon.

It appears to me, control decks have become the less dominant deck type. Based on that, I would look forward to more control elements being added. And while on the subject, more combo cards. I don't mean something that takes two cards and does something spiffy. I mean a 3+ card combo that will begin to go off and then work into a huge payoff. My best example would be infinite combos in MTG. Though I would prefer nothing infinite for AGoT, something along the lines of the payoff those combos have in MTG.

To me, Lannister and Targ are the houses that I would see cards like this in.

for Lanni I would love definetevely a Tyrion clansman King... only in this case I will play at least one time lanni :-)

Seal of the lion for lannister:P

Plots within plots

Myrcella additional intrigue

Halls of the red keep

Jaime VED

ser Amory Lorch

Small council agenda

Bronn's hireling

Maester of Whispers (no more stealth for wildlings)

The hound ITE

I could talk for hours on Lanni cards I would like to see! So I won't

I just wanted to say watch out for the plot that allowed you to play attachments out of house. That was part of many silly combos back in the day...

I was not a CCG player so I don't know what CCG cards aren't available in the LCG, but how about just more "Dragon" Trait characters so Dragon Bite and some of the "kneel/choose a Dragon character..." event cards are more usable. And where's the black hatchling?

Skowza said:

Agreed on more dragon trait goodness.

Black Hatchling's probably hiding in the last chapter pack...We've had a sighting of him on the cover of Illyrio's Gift...it figures that it was just a teaser for what's to come in the last CP (or perhaps the 5th?!). I think CP cycles are developing this "hold off the good stuff 'till the last pack in cycle" deal.

All in all, I just want reliable control elements or maybe even delayed rush during Melee games for the above houses.

I would love to see the 5KE Dragons come back. I built an amazing Ambush "Bounce and Burn" deck using those dragons, and they were very game defining for Targ at the time. I just worry that they might be too powerful for the current environment.

I think Viserion might be a bit unbalanced. The hatchlings would be welcome 1 influence ambush characters. Oh and manticore was another fun character.

Another fun agenda was The True Queen. I know, I know neutral house is similar, but neutral house doesn't reduce gold penalties for non characters. And it allows neutrals. True Queen was more about building a Targ deck while splashing out of house mechanics. That to me is a nedly theme for targ, after all Dany needs the support of other houses to get the throne back, and keep it.

Ruvion said:

Ah, but the other Hatchlings were in Defenders of the North, so I was expecting to see the last one in Return of the Others...

I'm pretty sure Balerion the Black took his slot. We do know we are getting one at some point in this cycle.

I want to see something new in each box. I mean Dothraki are cool, and the new theme could use some non-unqiues... but I don't want the whole box to be about Dothraki... cool Targ theme, but to me Targaryen IS Daeny. I just want a really awesome Daeny and some cards that really work with her. Lannister... um, I hate to say it but I almos think in the exact opposite here, I think Clansman cards at least a few could help flush out what is an intriguing idea. Well I guess what I really want is a non-control build for Lannister, I don't care what route they take.

Oh, good point, I hate the current Daenerys card... I just don't really see the value of her vs other Targ cards. Maybe if she had stealth or something...

Penfold said:

It might be a bit unbalanced, given that targ are already getting a strong theme in the current chapter packs and a box would boost them more, but I'd like to see a Daeny good enough that you could really build a deck around the way Matell can with the Red Viper.

Previous versions of her worked off one part of the Targ 'colaition': usually either dothraki or dragons iirc. But I'd like to see a Daeny that brought all the parts together, with her at the centre. For example she could grow stronger and gain bonuses (stealth, immunity to events etc.) based on how many different traits your other characters have. So if you have a deck based round a single theme, ie. dothraki, she isn't great (they follow drogo not her afterall), but if you have all the different targ parts, dragons and queensguard and mercenaries and dothraki and whatnot, she can grow very strong indeed.

That'd encourage people to build a varied targ deck and to make daeny the key card in it, which is pretty nedly imo.

Anyway less specifically I want stronger control, especially cards that can counter weenies but that have more strings attached, and effort involved in using them, than something like venemous blade. I think neutral brotherhood weenie decks could be incredibly powerful by the time this chapter cycle is done.

I'm encouraged by the fact that in the stark and bara boxes the 'Big Name' characters (the kings, the grown-up starks, blackfish etc.) were all pretty good, and also pretty interesting cards; it's just more fun to be able to use all the big important characters, and it seems FFG have learned their lesson from putting out crap versions of the likes of Doran Martell, Tywin and (of course) Daeny. If they keep that trend up with targ and lanni and reinforce their control options then I'll be happy indeed

This is going to paint a standard on my back, so read this entire post before you troll me.

Dany is my least favourite character. And this might have some spoilers.

Now the reasoning; its not in that she is particularly bad, I just find that the majority of readers inflate her beyond the scope of what she actually does, and somebody needs to keep the impression of her down to earth. At least with my local group of readers/players. She is the stormborn, shes the mother of dragons, she is the leader of the mercenary armies, she leads the unsullied. And thats all fine and great, but as SharpyShuffle said, the Dothraki followed Drogo, not her. The amount of Dothraki actually following her is barely a shadow of what Drogo commanded. Plus, she was sold to Drogo. Its like marrying into money and then taking the credit for earning it. Know what I mean? Yes, she is the mother of Dragons. But should we give her more credit than Mel? Theres Melisandre, who is doing her best to find a royal to kill to hatch some eggs, because she wants Dragons to fight the Others. Eggs that may or may not be within Dragonstone (or something like that, it gets confusing whats speculation and whats fact since its all POV and not thrid person). Yes, Dany hatched Dragons. But Dany did it by accident . Should we give her more credit than the individual who is willingly trying to find a way to do it? I don't know. She does lead the mercenaries, but we can't forget, they are mercenaries - the Brave Companions fall into the same category. When it comes to leading mercenaries in Westeros I see two kinds of people: There is Oberyn Martell, and there is everyone else. He founded a mercenary company. When Robb Stark called his banners they followed him because he was Robb Stark , not because they saw potential plunder (Walder Frey excluded). Should we give her more credit for having followers who follow her for their own benefit that we give the guy who inspired them into following him? Once again, I don't know.

I'm not trying to say she is a horrible individual and deserves no credit. I just don't think she is the end all and be all of Targ, and I don't think she is the best of the best. There are lots of characters to Targ that are important, I'd like to see a card for Elia who is Targ/Martell, for example. What about the older Targ characters? Ser Willem Darry, Ser Jon Connington, or even Aerys II? There is a lot more than Dany within the house, thats all I wanted to get across.

But hey, thats just my opinion, so don't take it with any weight.

Lannister is at the moment the house that needs the most a new box. Only kneeling is winning at the moment and since that makes 2+ years it is out, most of the lannisters players here dropped this house to play other new mechanics. No new sexy strategy in defeders of the north cycle. Clansmen might be fun however but still no intrigue emphasis. Baratheon is now stronger than lannister in intrigue challenge ! I'd like to see more cards with the intrigue icon (like a bronn's hireling), and more effects on this challenge (like tears of lys).

Targaryen is becoming a real powerhouse and one of the strongest archetype in the metagame. They could wait another year because for the moment, it is fun to build a targ deck, unlike lannister.

Hmm, one one hand it is true Dany IS the one holding everything together. On the other hand, yes the dothraki followed Khal Drogo, and she inherited only her queensguard. The mercenaries have the same loyalty to her as they do to cercei.

However the unsullied are LOYAL to her, the dragons are as well (for the most part), Selmy and Mormont, Strong Belwas. Everyone else is using her, but she has her own loyal supporters.

Now how has FFG represented Targ: We have dothraki, and Khal (who both variations very playable). The recent Aggo and Rhakharo are also amazing for a dothraki deck.

Now... how would I say do Danaerys. (Maybe it will happen if say 20 or so certain people didn't show up at gencon this year... I think thats the average amount of people that have a better record than me at worlds... I'm not putting myself down, just being honest. I usually go 3L 2W or 3W 2L).

1. Give her renown, even at the begining of the books, everything she does is spread to Robert and Asshai.

2. Undercost her, not only to reward players for using her, but to also hone in that everyone using her: Illyrio, the Khal, the Warlocks took her for granted... so make her cost 2.

3. Now what would her special ability be? Well if she is a linchpin with hiering mercs, unsullied, etc... then:

Kneel an unslullied or queensguard to save Daenerys Targaryen from being killed.

Stand a dragon to give Daenerys Targaryen deadly.

After you win a power challege: draw a card. (Danyfish right?)

4. Strength would be 3 or 4. She would have an Intrigue and Power Icon.

I agree that Daenerys needs a new card. and a card that involves all the various traits associated with House Targaryen is ver flavorful and cool! great ideas!

perhaps instead of her getting boosts from having Dragons, Dothraki, Unsullied, Mercenary, etc in play. they get bonuses for her in play?

she's kind of the rallying force of it all so to reflect that, perhaps boosting Dothraki Str, or giving Unsullied Deadly... that kinda thing.

or a mix of the her giving and getting bonuses... that might be a lot of text though.. haha

either way, i really do hope to see a new Daenerys card in the Targaryen box!

i think she's long overdue.

the current card doesn't quite seem to capture the effect of her character in the books. (i guess it does kind of reflect the "beggar" lifestyle her ahnd Viserys had early on in the first book, which is appropriate for an intro set...)

...and a black hatchling!!

bloodycelt said:

/Unique/ Nameless Overpowered Character
Queen
2 Gold, 4 Strength
Intrigue Icon, Power Icon
Renown.
Challenges: After you win a power challenge, draw a card.
Any Phase: Kneel an Unsullied or Queensguard to save Nameless Overpowered Character from being killed.
Any Phase: Stand a Dragon to give Nameless Overpowered Character Deadly until the end of phase.

There are 6 dragons, all unique (with a 7th on its way).
There are 2 unsullied, one unique and one non-unique.
There are 6 queensguards, all unique.
And there is one Rhaegar's Harp, which would let you attach it to your Nameless Overpowered Character. This would let you attack on a challenge, stand your Nameless Overpowered Character to have it give itself deadly, then kneel itself to save itself, if necessary. Then you can once again stand itself to give it another instance of deadly, and repeat, going on as many challenges as possible. For 2 gold. At (or 3) strength? With card draw?

Ya, I can only see about a sixth of the meta ever running this card. Its a good thing it couldn't ever be abused; since there is absolutely no trait manipulation in the current meta.

Mathias Fricot said:

Well FFG has been pretty clear about their reluctance to print anything not from the main books. We've gotten a few characters who were not alive during the story, but referred to often or had some sort of central/lingering role in the story (stories) being told. I think it is unreasonable to expect one of the legendary Targaryen's in the box set. As to there being more in the House... well no, that is precisely the point, there is no one left, she is it. The last of the Targaryen's (putting aside all theories about bastards or saved babies). IF we are going directly by the books she is the sole heir to the House and name.

Referencing her leading Dothraki, it is true she does have no more than a splinter of Drogo's force, but she does have some, and she is the only non-Dothraki and woman to lead them. That is exceedingly important and feet as far as we know never to have been accomplished before.

Regarding the Dragons, that was no accident, she tried putting the Dragons in fire before and it didn't work. She very clearly suspected that the Maegi was right and that only death could pay for life and purposefully tried to hatch them again... and succeeded. Where as Melisandre has a theory (which given Daeny's success is at least partially true) she has been unable to make an attempt. IOW she has done more and faster by instinct and smarts what Melisandre has been unable to do with prophecy and foreknowledge.

As to the mercenaries, lets not forget how she turned those mercenaries, with charm, with cunning, and with an uncanny knowledge of subversive tactics... not particularly different from how she became the commander of the Unsullied.

Daeny has done more to carve out a kingdom and seek to do what is right for her people than any of the children and a most of the adults in the "present day" of the four books we have. I'm not saying she needs a card that is on par with Robert or The Red Viper, but she deserves a card that is either badass unto itself, or empowers some or all of her forces to a greater degree.

I think it would be pretty cool if they came out with Dragon characters that could attach themselves to Dany, giving her a keyword or ability while attached, and then could be returned back to play as characters. Or conversely, allow to be attached to Dany when they are first played, then allowed to unattach themselves but have to return to Dany at the end of the phase. It could be really interesting if their "attach to DT at the end of the phase or discard from play" passive forced them to attach to an opponent's Dany if your' Dany happened to get killed/discard/etc. in the meantime.

As for the Mega-Dany propsed by Bloodycelt, make it Kneel a Dragon to give her Deadly and shes' not nearly as broken. And IIRC, you can't run all 6 Queensguard characters at the same time. Two of them are Jhogo.

same deal with 2 of the 6 dragons.

I will clearly become trolled very quickly.

Go back and look at the description of the Dothraki she leads. Its all the old, the weak, the lame, and those who couldn't fight so the other Khal's didn't want them. I'm pretty sure Mormont is the one to evaluate them.

Its foolish to say that Dany has done more with instinct that Mel has. I can pick up a textbook and throw it from my tenth floor apartment window. If it hits a thief running from the building, that definitely does not make me a hero. I was not trying to apprehend this trickster thief. Its like giving someone credit for winning the lottery. No, being sold to someone, being given lottery tickets as a present, then winning the lottery. Besides, the death that way paying for life was first interpreted by her as having to do with rhaego.

Her commanding of the mercenaries is brutal. The enemy has its back to the walls of the giant city. Lets attack from three sides, preventing their escape. I put down the book at that point. Lets all make a big deal about her commanding when thats the most rookie thing she could have done. Attack from the front and from the side, then let the rest flee would probably have been a better idea, as soon as one breaks and runs the others would fall like a house of cards. Otherwise they are just going to fight that much harder. And yes, inb4 someone says how they surrendered. It was a dumb scene. She couldn't have predicted that, so once again, shes lucky.

Please, tell me how she has more accomplishments than Jon Snow. And just because some characters are not doing good, doesn't mean that they have not done more or greater things. Look at Bronn, he went from sellsword to lord protector. Littlefingers climbed extremely high and came from nothing. They don't do "whats best for their people" but they do an incredible amount of stuff.

I am not trying to attack your favourite character, I am trying to say that if your imagining her as Daisy Buchanan, then she isn't your favourite character anymore, is she? She isn't the greatest, she isn't the best, but she is interesting, and she has potential. There is no way to prove shes awesome or not awesome, but you can concede that there is an inflated opinion of her.

She isn't my favorite character, far from it, but you are pretty much wrong on every account. I just recently read every one of her chapters, back to back (as I have done for all the main view point characters, hers was just the latest). Martin paints a picture very strongy with his word choices that Daeny knew what she was doing when it came to the dragon eggs and with her subverting the mercenary armies. And yes, a mercenary army with no cause to believe in, and bosses who cannot not fight beside them with the majority hiding behind them in a walled city can be predicted to break and surrender once it becomes clear that there is no victory to be had. You don't need to have studied military history in depth to figure that out. It wasn't her brilliant strategy of flanking an army with it's collective back to the wall and then pushing down the middle that won her that battle, but the sowing strife among the commanders of the Stormcrows, and causing the Second Sons to be unfit for battle that wins the day. That is Sun Tzu styled thinking.

Daeny knew Rhaego paid for Drogo's life and she believed the blood magic would work again with Drogo's life for her hatchlings. You can try to spin her accomplishments as complete accidents but the books (never mind Martin's own words at various cons) say otherwise.

What does Jon or Littlefinger have to do with this? I mentioned them not at all. Showing someone else's accomplishments does not in any way diminish Daeny's. And as much as I like Jon Snow, a much more favorite character for me than Daeny, he is not the person you should be bringing up if you want to use arguments based on being lucky, accident, or other people responsible for success and station.

Look you don't like her, you are far from the only one, but dismissing her very real accomplishments (heh, that phrase is funny) because of that just makes no sense. I think you have let your dislike for her color your memories of her chapters. You don't even have to read her chapters all the way through, just go to Tower of the Hand.

Penfold said:

Jon Snow is one of the children. Baelish is one of the adults.

For the rest, I think the only thing less fruitful than changing your mind would be your attempt at changing mine.

Jon Snow has done a lot of good, but the vast majority of it was truly accidental or because he surrounded himself with people who believe in him more than he believes in himself and worked towards his success without his knowledge or input (a la Commander of the Night's Watch). Daeny made herself the ruler of the city-state Meereen, it was her strategies and intrigues that led to the defeat of the forces arrayed against her. She has conquered and freed the slaves in four cities. None of the children comes close to that magnitude accept Robb who of course was responsible for his own downfall. Out of the adults arguments can be made for Stannis and Euron when it comes to conquering and ruling for their people. Littlefinger fails because the Eyrie is all he truly controls (as of right now) and it isn't a Kingdom itself. He is now Protector of the Vale, barely, but fully half of the banner lords do not trust him, which means he rules in name only. I do expect that to change extremely quickly (well, in consideration of the time in the books, come on George typey-typey!). He has certainly done nothing "good" for those he rules over excepting where it fits his own nefarious purposes.

You are right though, you won't be convincing me, and if the books haven't convinced you nothing I say is going to.