Magnus Arcanis said:

I think the intent is to provide some kind of support for your photocopies.....

Or maybe there is something we don't know like a card that says: you win the game if your mi-gos have 60 I icons among them.

Had it read: All Mi-Go gain Investigate...yadda yadda, then it would be ok. Or am I a fool to question the defending two time champ at his most irked.

I am. I am that fool.

@ Optic Nerve: If it was not limited to Mi-Go then it would be mildly amusing because the Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young could be an investigator for a bit... Yea, this card is the suckiest.

OK, but did any mi-go deck from any era not suck?

The Scout, the Warrior, the Ageless Mi-Go, Alien Excavation - these were all good cards, but the deck never really came.

msommi said:

LOL.

johnny shoes said:

Hehe. Really though, if it did have that text it would've been fine. Or even "All Mi-Go characters you control..." for a cost 1 event would've been just fine. I certainly wouldn't of been so irked nor would it of been game breaking. Hell, it wouldn't of been 'THAT' good either. However thats not they want to sell us.

They rather continue printing garbage. Granted they can't all be winners, but if more cards were more (at the very least) intriguing I'd wager a bet that they would sell more packs.

Honestly, I really do want to see this game succeed and do well and live on forever as a staple in the gaming community. But after seeing mista... no I'll hold back... again. However I am still waiting for the day when anyone (even outside of FFG) can make me think that I couldn't do a better a job then they are doing (at least when it comes to expanding games). Really, I do wish for that happen.

I dunno, maybe I'm being arrogant. Meh, I probably am, but when I see SOO many things go wrong I really scratch my head and wonder what people are thinking (or dare I say, not thinking).

Then again, maybe I'm the fool. Perhaps their intent was to get a rise out of people to spurr more community activity...

There are the low power unplayable cards for sure - ones that cost too much, ones that are limited to affecting one character once and thus rarely worth it, expensive support with exhaust and cost actions, bad attachments, and cards that vividly support the serial story of Julia or Erin or whomever but wither under the heightened scrutiny and are often not earth shattering. A good serial with good touchstone cards is indeed a true art form.

We lament weak cards with beautiful art, weak cards of our most favorite characters and mythos moments dampened. But it's just not that gloomy.

Perhaps this cycle underwhelmed at times. I am not prepared to say that is the general feeling I am left with. Speak to the Dead (#20) helped knock me out of contention at Regionals.

We've been on a pendulum between too safe too weak too obvious cards and more daring cards. I like our living and mostly healthy (opinion) meta. There's evidence of thunderous cards as well. I point to our powerful cards, cards debated broken / narrowly powerful / overpowered by many, the Hastur cards let's say. Some might say there's a big problem. And many have other challenging things to say. Or so we have all read. Years ago it would have been Ritual Rainbows, Ghoul Khanums, Yigs, HDY Nyarly et al. Quality classics to me all (ok, not the breakneck speed problems).

I'm feeling less...imminent. A new Expansion and cycle and narrator and staff (and, yes, new faction) are upon us. When that passes, next year more cycles and Expansions I expect. Each card is an opportunity. And I'd bet we all like more than we dislike. We're paying attention after all.

And yes, I too would love to design a card. Magnus will wow us with both of his I am certain.

ia!

And I still say Johnny Shoes should resign his post.

johnny shoes said:

Ya... I wouldn't count on that one either. The first one will be loosely based on what I had submitted (very loosely, in fact the looseness still angers me to this day), but it will still bear my ugly mug somehow. The whole thing kinda got botched and I'm left taking it on the chin with an 'oops, I'm sorry' in my pocket... I'm looking to make up for it with #2 though...

Though I admit, I'm not sure if I should try to make something that I actually want or attempt to make the first one not be steaming pile of mi-go dung. According to the previous proccess I have a rediciously long time to decide at least.

I played nice at Gencon, but I'm wondering how long my kid critique gloves can stay on. Fair warning, Hata is gonna need to step it up when it comes to CoC. This game is too good for me to sit and watch as bad things happen to it and its players.

As for this pack. Aside from that one card most of it is fine. Apart from a few still 'broken' card(s) and some rules confusion(s) things really aren't too bad. That being said things could be a LOT better too or at the very least less bad.

I dunno, I have been feeling like that kid in class that would wave his hand around furiously thinking he knows the answer but the teacher refuses to call on him cause s/he is looking for an answer from someone else.

All in all though, this isn't that big of deal by itself, but for me it ends up simply adding another mistake to an already really long chain of mistakes and I continue to wonder why it keeps getting longer.

On man, posting this early/late in the day/night is not good for my thought process. Please frogive my 'off the top of my crazy head' random post formating...

Poker players and chess and scrabble and monopoly and dominoes players, those guys never get to feel like the kid in class with his hand up. So, that's kinda cool right there. The game is alive and unfolding. I never forget that amazing part of the mythos experience, the new discoveries.

The cards are permanent, ranging between perfect and imperfections of human effort. Decisions are being made right now on new cards that we would give half our collection to be able to help make.

So it makes sense I think to feel that sense of ownership, of being on the ride. Did you submitted Harbor Master of Celephais and got back Soft and Cuddly. That's no fun.

My own acerbic commentary with a few break-ins using the vernacular of the Shoes:

What can you really expect from a lead designer who does not have a firm grasp of the rules?

When I asked about submitting the dozen cards I designed the reasons the powers-that-be gave for not allowing submissions were ridiculous... spoken nicely but still ridiculous.

Nice guys finish last.

At least with Chess the rules are clear and your opponent does not get to start the game with 3 extra pawns and the ability to discard one of your pawns every time they take a piece unless you play the same color...

Similarities are differently the same in a non Euclidean thought process.

Sometimes I wonder how much experience this community has with real CCG’s. I wonder because of the level of apparent acceptance of what is provided by FFG. I have played several well organized card games and have never seen the amount of armature jank that FFG pulls. Why accept it then olde Tokhuah? The Cthulhu property and flair is so cool, and is represented well in art and general game design that even the stench of piss on the walls keeps me coming back to the club to hear one more song from the torch singer.

In the end I prefer the night markets of Taipei or the catacombs of Palermo to GenCon so I guess that means I am not a serious player worth really paying attention to…

James was brought in to do a job. If he isn't capable perhaps he duties should be more focused on to games hes better at and bring in someone else who can handle what pervious people couldn't.

That being said, not everything is bad and not worth wrecking someone's life over. There are several positivies to look at too. But if he has too much on his plate not only does this game suffer but the company suffers.

Somehow things need to start getting better. I have my ideas and I know others do too, but this game is too good of a platform to be passed off like this. It just needs some TLC.

Just sayin.

Agree 100% brother...

Shoes will again play fan boy to keep the debate on. I think there is some over reaction. FAQ 1.9 and 2.0 were 15 long months apart and addressed many sets. Based on that scale I feel like we got an FAQ reasonably soon after core, one black and white and one more substantial. I also think that rules questions addressed here by FFG are precarious until formalized in FAQ. Also, some folks believe a card needs one while others do not.

This arc just concluded. If I'm not mistaken, it's James' first finger prints on the game. One arc, lots of good cards. The next expansion has drawn some criticism until the most recent spoil. So, soon another wave of derision may be upon us. I am more hopeful that smart cards will continue to appear.

The idea that since FFG does not accept card design ideas, they're somehow bad designers or bad people is ludicrous. So you don't get a vote. It is the rarest of situations when one does, like an election. Or ones' old MTG experience that interests most of us not.

I share the passion. I'm lagging on ability but I don't totally suck. The rules questions and the frustration of wanting an answer for months I understand. I just think we don't sound graceful. Perhaps the loftier the player, the more poised the challenge should be. Which I am mostly seeing.

I just see a pile-on that, to me, tells of our comparative youth and beauty.

I also wish Shoes would get over himself.

johnny shoes said:

Ahh you're a good man shoes. I agree to an extent. I don't mind that they don't take suggestions from people outside the circle on an official stance. After all theres a reason why people get paid to make and expand games. Though, I think its rather silly to actively pass on ideas that are just good ideas. Not saying that they are doing that, but if the reason why (for example) my suggestion for 'fixing' Endless Interrogation won't happen just because I suggested it is silly. I certainly hope thats not the case nor do I believe that it is.

As I said before there is a lot of good and acceptable to look at it too. Perhaps I'm asking too much, but there definately seems to be some things that are unforgiveable. Not all of which are James' fault (like what happened in the Wolrd Championships in '08 and its aftermath), but...

One of the major things I would like to see improved is quality of packs. From what it looks like the first few cards come out great and interesting and then when it starts to come to the end of the pack James started to phone it in. I have no proof, but I can definately spot which cards he spent time on and which ones he... didn't put much effort into.

Some cards I think James put effort into and most likely were done in the early stages of creating the pack:
*Harry Houdini - Kind of a big name.
Safe House - A rather interesting combo engine.
Feeding Frenzy - Makes combat a little more dangerous.
Bloodbath - Cool name and a slightly higher level of complication.
Stone Calendar - Another interesting way to draw some cards that introduces another way to interact with success tokens.

Some cards that I believe recieved a less than stellar effort:
Examining the Optic Nerve - I think we all know how I feel about this card.
Forgiveness - Card ability only partially resembles forgiveness unless its meant to be ironic. I'm only going off of spoilers. (I still think, per card text, a better name would've been Delaying the Inevitable)
Out of Darkness - Cool name, lame ability. In all senses of the word lame when compared to the name.
Springfield - More generic crap we've seen before.
Fledgline Byakhee - Uh huh... yawn.

Of course I have no idea how James spends his time nor is it any of my business, but I can see what his potential is and wish/wondy why the percentage of good cards to bad cards doesn't lean more towards the good than it does now. Just to be clear when I say good and bad I'm not talking about their competitive playability, but their appeal, complexity, intrigue, flavor, and what they add to the game overall.

James is a good guy and is clearly capable which is why I'm starting to theorize that Cthulhu is being put too low on the priority list (which monetarily would make sense as right now it would rank 3rd out of 3 LCGs), but a game cannot rise if it is put off THIS much. 4 months since Gencon and no action one way or another to address the metagame is unaceptable. For players like me who rarely play it doesn't matter much, but this is agonizing for those that do. A month, month and a half MAYBE 2 months if its rather extensive is slow but ultimately not that bad. Four on the other hand and I'd wager that we won't see anything for antoher 1-2 months (if we're lucky).

Obviouisly if 4 months is unacceptable, but 5, 6, or possibly even 7 months would be disastrous. Its one thing if FFG knew that the game would fix itself with the release of new cards that would counteract the cards poisoning the current meta but that clearly isn't what is happening.

Is it an overreaction? Maybe a little (at least at the start, but I was irked), but I can only speak for myself and how I feel about the situation. Right now, while I believe James is more than capable, but I'm still left with the feeling that if I could I would take over and get things done. However, I am willing to be patient (not that I really have a choice) as I know what sort of mess he was handed not unlike the mess Obama was handed after Bush. Unfortuneatly for James I know a lot more about card games than I do about politics and I actually somewhat follow politics.

A couple of things to consider... this game, and all LCG's largest supporting players are not competitive players. Why should every card printed be the peak of efficiency and imminently useful for tier 1 decks?

People who are social gamers first actually enjoy playing themed decks that are not min-maxed within an inch of their lives. So cards that allow for interesting or effects that are niche but allow for a little interesting side trip outside of the norm of a theme makes perfect sense. This card thematically fits with the story written. For a lot of people that is all the justification it needs.

All cards and all asylum packs are designed and printed at the same time. Any thought that things start to peter out at the end because of energy or attention span is simply wrong.

All that said, while I play with people who are social casual players first, I'm slowly getting back into the game from the CCG days, I am somewhat competitive myself (though this is really not my game for that expression). This is not a card I could see using in a competitive deck. At best you commit to multiple stories with your mi-go's and play this card to gain an additional success token your opponent didn't think you'd be able to grab. Maybe that wins you the story.Maybe that wins you the game. Maybe your opponent from this point on is forced to make harder decisions about what and where to commit. *shrug*

There isn't a lot (or really any) competitive worth in the card as it stands now. I expect the broader viewer of an experienced designer is going to be that this is not just okay, but desired. I mean if I can see it isn't a stretch that they can also.

And for the record... calling out the designer and saying he isn't doing his job just because he does it differently than you would is just a douchey thing to do. I'm just saying.

A couple of things to consider... this game, and all LCG's largest supporting players are not competitive players. Why should every card printed be the peak of efficiency and imminently useful for tier 1 decks?

People who are social gamers first actually enjoy playing themed decks that are not min-maxed within an inch of their lives. So cards that allow for interesting or effects that are niche but allow for a little interesting side trip outside of the norm of a theme makes perfect sense. This card thematically fits with the story written. For a lot of people that is all the justification it needs.

Just to be clear when I say good and bad I'm not talking about their competitive playability, but their appeal, complexity, intrigue, flavor, and what they add to the game overall

All cards and all asylum packs are designed and printed at the same time. Any thought that things start to peter out at the end because of energy or attention span is simply wrong.

Sigh. They are printed at the same time yes. However they're not designed at the time. While they may be designed in same window of the project plan, and are meant to interact with each other the fact is the cards have to be designed relatively one at a time from a technical stand. I'm sure theres a lot of jumping around and what not and he may even go back and forth until all the pieces are in place. This is all what I'm assuming based off what my experiences are. I specifically said I had not proof, but I still believe some cards recieved a lot less effort than others. Which is perfectly understandable, but you seem to have proof that I'm simply wrong.

Now I certainly understand that James is human which has its benefits and downfalls. I am willing to forgive, hell I practially already have, but I am asking for more because I feel the current situation isnt' healthy. I don't believe thats unreasonable nor douchey as you put it.

All that said, while I play with people who are social casual players first, I'm slowly getting back into the game from the CCG days, I am somewhat competitive myself (though this is really not my game for that expression). This is not a card I could see using in a competitive deck. At best you commit to multiple stories with your mi-go's and play this card to gain an additional success token your opponent didn't think you'd be able to grab. Maybe that wins you the story.Maybe that wins you the game. Maybe your opponent from this point on is forced to make harder decisions about what and where to commit. *shrug*

There isn't a lot (or really any) competitive worth in the card as it stands now. I expect the broader viewer of an experienced designer is going to be that this is not just okay, but desired. I mean if I can see it isn't a stretch that they can also.

The game text doesn't reflect the mi-go theme other than it mentioning the mi-go subtype so even for a theme deck its aweful. We both agree it has no competitive value. There are many better/more intriguing/fun options to include in a deck containing shub for a casual deck even as a trick that shub normally doesn't have. Speaking of doing things that a faction normally isn't capable of doing... I would like to see the opposite personally. The definitions of each of the pie pieces seem rather broad and undefined right now. We have enough to see what they're supposed to be, but in my opinion there aren't enough cards to enforce them. Thats another debate which could deserve its own thread though.

To recap: Competitively its weak. Casually its weak. Thematically its weak. As a trick its weak. Not sure about its art or where it fits within the story so I assume they're fine or awesome (art on these types of cards is usually pretty awesome). So again I ask, who desires this card? Who will desire this card (since you know the future I thought I'd ask )? Really this card rivals Norm Garbageowski in its disappointment to me anyway.

And for the record... calling out the designer and saying he isn't doing his job just because he does it differently than you would is just a douchey thing to do. I'm just saying.
[/Quote]

Well I'm glad we have you calling me a ****** on the record. Thats fun. Anyway while I am calling him out I'm not saying that he isn't doing his job. Obviously he is doing it or else we wouldn't be having this discussion over the cards that just came out. As I stated above I am asking for more. 4 months since gencon an no word on the plans for the metagame, the amount of good to weak (in all senses of the term) cards or even the ruling on the Yog/Unspeakable Ressurection interaction (which too would be answered with an erratta), etc...

Now I admit some of my previous words may of been a little harsh, but brown nosing hasn't exactly been the best way for me to reach him. I tried my absolute hardest to be his best friend, and with any luck we can get back to a good relationship. However, with problems that everyone can see and the ones I know about privately I'm asking for more from him. I'm a reasonable, logical guy thats easily forgives and forgets but that can't happen unless something changes. Going about it nicely, respectfully, and with beyond normal human patience to get to him isn't/hasn't been working so I have resorted to challenging him.

If that makes me a ****** then so be it. I apologize. My ultimate goal is to help improve things and since certain other aspects which I won't specifcally mention here as they should be between me and him still haven't happened... Ya I know, now I sound like I'm whining, but really its just fustrating and dissrespectful for the now 2 years and 4 months it has been going on... Like I said beyond normal human patience...

Speaking of apologies, I owe one to you as well. A few times during this post I was a little snide and I'm not seeking to antagonize you, but merely pointing out a few things that you seemed to miss from my previous posts. Welcome back to the game and I sincerely hope you enjoy all the new cards.

Happy Holidays.

A casual perspective - I'm not sure yours really is. I have a player in my group will absolutely include this card in his mi-go deck. The story included in the packs pretty much guarantees it. How can a card that is so obviously rooted in the context of the story (or vis a versa) not be thematic?

I submit that casual players like to win, but are more concerned about having fun, and for some playing sub-standard cards because they fit the flavor of the deck is fun. If you don't get that then there is nothing I can do to explain it to you. I can point out some design articles though that talk about the need to design for different kinds of players.

And let me clarify, you were pretty much saying he wasn't doing his job, well . Sure we have cards coming out, but it is obvious that you consider it his job to make cards you like and agree with and appreciate... and really it isn't. I mean we can stretch the idea that he should be designing for the type of player that you are and thereby he should be designing for you, but we all know that with multiple types of players there will always be cards that some player group is going to wish had never been printed, cards that are too powerful, not powerful enough, too based on some esoteric passage from a story, to not based enough on esoteric passages.

If we take the M:tG psychographs as being true you shouldn't expect to find more than a third of the cards that you connect with on a visceral level (and given the LCG format even that is going to have some flex at any given point). The best card designs will include multiple elements to attract multiple player types, but just as often you can destroy the pop of a card by trying to shoe-horn it into too many roles.

I mean this is all really creative process 101, just as true in fiction writing, journalism, art, and every other creative job as it is in game design.

I can ignore the apparent snide comments and condescending tones as byproducts of the internets and lack of face to face communication signals, so no fear, but you airing whatever personal grievances you have with James in the guise of card critique is still pretty douchey. If you have an issue with him take it up with him. If you dislike a card just say so. But a miniture dissertation that calls him out by name as not living up to your personal expectations as designer and the implication that you could do a better job and save this game is really beyond the pale. This is the kind of thing that drives new people away from forums and keeps people from joining the game. That might not have been your intent, but it is certainly not a stretch to see how that could be the end result.

Man... its like you're not even reading my responses.

Quotes in bold were originally posted by Penfold:
"A casual perspective - I'm not sure yours really is. I have a player in my group will absolutely include this card in his mi-go deck. The story included in the packs pretty much guarantees it. How can a card that is so obviously rooted in the context of the story (or vis a versa) not be thematic?"

I've went out of my way to make sure that people realize that my opinions on the card were towards all aspects of the game. Espeically towards non-competitive aspects of the game which included casual. The point of view I'm trying to protray is not that of just a player, but as a fan and a game designer.

As for its thematic appeal. I wasn't talking about its place in the story line (which was quite obvious when I stated that I didn't know a thing about the story line) but its theme with Mi-Gos that are currently already in place. Which is if one has it they all have it. Be it icons, keywords or what have you. It doesn't fit with THAT theme.

"I submit that casual players like to win, but are more concerned about having fun, and for some playing sub-standard cards because they fit the flavor of the deck is fun. If you don't get that then there is nothing I can do to explain it to you. I can point out some design articles though that talk about the need to design for different kinds of players."

I'm well aware of what casual players get out of a game. I've been one for years and still am (well, not so much as for this game anymore, but was at one time). As a self-proclaimed designer myself, I fully understand the concept of designing cards for certain groups of people. Even though I may disagree with some aspects... I still know the theories and practices.

"And let me clarify, you were pretty much saying he wasn't doing his job, well ."

Let me clarifiy (again) I'm saying that he wasn't doing his job as well as I believe he can .

"Sure we have cards coming out, but it is obvious that you consider it his job to make cards you like and agree with and appreciate... and really it isn't."

Me specfically? No its not his job to please me (at least not in the context of this conversation). Not sure why you think I think its that way. However it is his job to design cards that players want to buy. For the most part, as I've said before, he is doing. Believe it or not... I don't have a god complex...

"If we take the M:tG psychographs as being true you shouldn't expect to find more than a third of the cards that you connect with on a visceral level (and given the LCG format even that is going to have some flex at any given point). The best card designs will include multiple elements to attract multiple player types, but just as often you can destroy the pop of a card by trying to shoe-horn it into too many roles."

Again, I'm not requiring that all cards to connect with me despite my rather board range of acceptance, but I still haven't heard an actual answer to the basic question I asked in my first post on this subject. "Who is this card designed for?" As far as I can tell... no one. You claim that so far one person will like it because its a part of the story. Ok good, but I would like to see a part(s) of the story that would lead me to believe that Examining the Optic Nerve desreved to be printed with that game text. That would be a correct way of defending the card's exsistance. Not coming on here and attacking me claiming that I'm this self-centered ******.

"I can ignore the apparent snide comments and condescending tones as byproducts of the internets and lack of face to face communication signals, so no fear, but you airing whatever personal grievances you have with James in the guise of card critique is still pretty douchey. If you have an issue with him take it up with him. If you dislike a card just say so. But a miniture dissertation that calls him out by name as not living up to your personal expectations as designer and the implication that you could do a better job and save this game is really beyond the pale. This is the kind of thing that drives new people away from forums and keeps people from joining the game. That might not have been your intent, but it is certainly not a stretch to see how that could be the end result."

Well lets see here

I haven't offended you, thats good (really, not joking) but you got to call me a ****** again... I appreciate that (ya, thats sarcastic). Oh, and beyond pale. Gotta admit, thats a first for me. (its true)

I had already apologized for certain things, and still managed to maintain the personal grievances personal other than the part about there actually being a problem(s) of course. Considering my emotional state at the time and the level of the problem(s)... I don't have any regrets mentioning a little something. Hopefully it'll prompt him to contact me over it.

I did say that I disliked that card.

As far as the implication that I could do a better job... well. Its no secret that I believe that I could do a good job. Better on the other hand isn't for me to decide. Save the game? I wasn't aware that it needed saving, but do I think I could/can help improve some things? Most certainly. Call me arrogant, but I think I've posted a few good ideas in the past and have a few for the future as well...

I don't regret calling him out when its painfully clear that the players would like to see some action on several lingering problems. Its almost like you believe that he (or FFG) is on some sort of pedastal above the player base and that we should just accept their decisions and appreciate anything and everything they toss us. I'm sorry if thats not accurate, but regardless I see them as equals. And as equals, I (and others) would like to see a few things addressed before a few days prior to a FFG sponsered event.

As for my expectations? lol, Whats wrong with my expectations? Address the metagame and print less complete duds. Is that really unreasonable? I already admitted that I may not of gone about it the right way and even somewhat apologized, but when you boil it all down its not me that should be apologizing (at least on the subject of the silence on addressing the problems in the metagame even if its that he plans to do nothing).

So while I can respect you for coming to the defense of James, I can't help but to think you're taking this a little too personal and I'm sincerely sorry that I've seemed to have irked you the way Examining the Optic Nerve has irked me. I personally don't believe in grudges, its just not worth it to hate someone. For the record I don't hate James. He might be in my dog house right now, but I'm confident that he'll make things right. its just that I and others are pushing for a more immediate result (and yes I'm well aware that if he would somehow have a change in designing less 'far below par' cards it wouldn't come into effect for quite some time).

All in all I agree. This discussion is not healthy for attracting new players and if they somehow read this part I urge them not to be discouraged by this. However, in my defense, releasing cards like the one we're talking about and ones like Norm G. and ignoring problems that are plaguing this game even on a casual level for over 4 months is doing far worse to hurt this game than me calling out someone in charge to address these problems. Not that two wrongs make a right, but sometimes a wrong can cure another wrong.

I believe I've said all that I can say on this matter as pretty soon all I will be doing is repeating myself not that I haven't done a lot of that already. Which a good bit of that is my fault for writing novels for forum posts but I can't seem to help it. If you still feel that I"m being a self-centered ****** with a god complex with unreasonable expectations that is beyond pale then... well I'm sorry you or anyone else feels that way. I tried to explain otherwise.

Anyway the Hata discussion aside, I would still like to see a good defense of Examinging the Optic Nerve. If one shows up most of what I've perviously posted ends would up back in my face and I will promptly leave with my tail between my legs. That should be fun for everyone no?

You are a "self-proclaimed" game designer? What have you designed? What games? Who do you work for?

And I call them like I see them. Your actions were douchey. How else would one describe the actions of airing personal and professional grievances not with the person involved but on a public forum in the guise of a "critque."

I didn't say you were a ****** just that your actions were douchey. I mean we all do and say things when we get annoyed that are not particularly reprsentative of our better natures, but is this really good for the community? Hell is this even good for your reputation as a person and a player? What are you trying to accomplish here?

Penfold said:

Game design was nothing more than a hobby for me until this past year. Currently I work for me, not that I'm paying myself or anything. I haven't published anything yet... but with any luck I can get things off the ground in 2011 or at least get a lot closer to get things off the ground. But yes, saying "self-proclaimed" was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheekish.

More talk about guising... I'm not attempting to hide anything. If fact I thought what I was doing was the complete opposite. I admit though, calling him out (a bit more aggresivly than those before me) is not something I prefer to do nor am I used to and is certainly something I hope I will never have to do again. Yet somehow it remains one of the more effective ways of triggering a response which is sad to be honest. As for my reputation, I think I'll be fine. I'm not one for making enemies.

What am I trying to accomplish?

First it was get someone to explain to me why Examining the Optic Nerve exsists as to me theres no excuse and no one has provided evidence to the contrary (also yet?). That lead into why the ratio of fun cards to garbarge cards hasn't really gotten better yet since Nate's relocation. Then it lead into a bit of why has there been no response on the metagame. Then ultimately it came to me requesting FFG, James, and/or whoever to perform up to their potential as I was beginning to notice a building trend of negative things that shouldn't be happening. It kind of all culminated after I saw EON as it broke one of the last straws. Being protective of the remaining straws I lashed(lashing) out.

My goals where to get some answers and with any luck get a response that people have been asking for. I hope no one thinks that I'm wishing ill will on james or anyone at FFG. That is NOT my intention.

Boys, boys... I think this is degenerating into an infinite loop.

Magnus doesn't like Examining the Optic Nerve, and would like to see FFG step up and give more love and support to CoC.

Penfold sees Examining... as consistent with the story that was presented in the packs (and it is).

I know Tom as my "convention buddy", and I know that he is a good egg and really does mean well. He loves this game as much as the rest of us and is only seeking what he thinks is best.

There might be disagreement in what is best, but probably not worth using up all this forum space.

So how about you shake hands and move onto other fertile discussions?

And I say this as a middle child who had the family role of peace keeper.

@ Penfold: please stop using the D word in all of your posts. It is baiting, flaming, and not constructive in terms of formulating a cogent argument. Also, I highly doubt that Magnus is a D in real life unless he is secretly:

Seriously, MA writes thoughtful, well formulated commentary on these forums. Let's keep the discussion focused on the issues rather than on defaming each other. We have D-bag celebrities for that game.

Hey, I call them like I see them. If he is going to stand by his statements and not refute those implications I have every write to call him on them. But you don't like me saying that someone is acting douchey, fine. His posts on this topic are derisive, opprobrious, unctuous, caustic, headlong, enervating, and yarrish. Is that better?

Tom, if you want FFG to take notice of something and address your concerns man... flies and honey, my friend, flies and honey. Also possibly pissing off someone employed full time in the industry you want to be a part of, who works for one of the biggest companies in the hobby gaming industry in the US, is probably not the smartest route to get from 'I'm trying to design a game on my own' to 'I design award winning games for a living.'

I'm guessing like most niche industries there is a fair amount of interaction between a lot of the companies, and a google search of a perspective employee has pretty much become par for the course these days. Is this what you want to pop up at your first interview for a game publisher?

Ok, I know I said I had nothing else to add, but believe me when I say that this is the absolute last thing I will say on our "conversation."

@ Penfold and to anyone else that shares his opinions - I suggesst re-reading my posts on the subject. All of them and everything in the post(s). While most my posts may of started negative I ended up receding by the end. At times I've even apologized in the event that I possibly crossed a line. Which I apologize again if I did indeed cross a line. I've pointed out some things that don't sit well with me and with many others. While I don't believe I was many of the things Penfold claimed me to being, hindsight being 20/20 I could've been more constructive and a lot less destructive. While the majority of my opinions previously expressed have not changed (though I believe they will eventually) I'm gonig to learn from my most recent error(s) and return to my usual self.

@ Penfold - I've stood by and tried to be as respectful as possible towards you while you continued to attack me on various levels while claiming some pretty outrageous things. Your "trolling" while successful will end here. I'm not threatening you but simply telling you that I'm done. I accept your advice and respond with; I treat people with respect as long as they treat me with respect and will return respect when it is returned to me. I hold no grudges nor ill will towards anyone including you and hope that we can continue on in a much better manner than that was displayed here.

@ The FAQ - I've recently found out that progress is being made on the next installment. Hopefully I'm not not breaking anyone's rules or trust by revealing that bit of info. But I know that I at least take some solice in that something is being done and knowing that adds a great deal of endurance to my paitence and hope that it will have a similiar effect for anyone else whose patience had also almost ran out.

Heres to a hopefully fantastic 2011 and I hope everyone has a happy new year.