It's just something that struck me as thankfully I've not had a player fatality in my campaign as yet, but if I did I'm not sure how to add a new rolled character back in to an adventure, it's not like dungeon bashing in a fantasy game is it?

Any Ideas?

Do need to learn how to type, sorry....

disincthowler said:

Yes, it's just like dungeon bashing in a fantasy game if you allow it to become so. Perhaps you could explain just what you mean by the comment, as I'm not entirely sure just what situations you're referring to.

About the only "problem" (quotations because YMMV as to whether it is or not) are the rules on Heroic Death and the progenoids.

Kage

Sorry, I'll clarify. If you are in the middle of an adventure and player looses a character. In a fantasy bash usually it is a simple matter to introduce the new character. It's not so simple in Deathwatch is it? Obviously game balance does come into it but sometime the dice gods just are not friendly.

Drop Pods = Ammo reloads and character reloads.

ItsUncertainWho said:

And if your too deep underground for them, teleporters also work.

I'd probably not allow them to benefit from squad mode for the rest of the mission as they are completely new characters.

Though if a player is low enough on fate points that they risk character death at the start of the mission, you do have enough warning that they might die to introduce a more complex way to have a new character show up.

I can see that, thanks. my feeling however was that most time the Killteam would operate with no support whatsoever.

Yeah I will have an Idea that a character will fall out of the game but I would think than an strange and improbable introduction of a new battle brother difficult to fit in the plot.

I think that once again confirms the "Yes" bit of my first reply.

Kage

disincthowler said:

The new marine dropping from the sky in a pod, is not supposed to be a replacement, but is carrying new vital orders (new primary or secondary objective) that over ride their current orders.

"Brothers, you have been re-tasked. These new orders must be completed and I am here to help...What do you mean Brother Carmine has fallen?"

Get creative with the how and the why.

Kage2020 said:

Kage2020 said:

Why thank you Kage. I never really intended for a dungeon bash, more carnage and diplomacy. I'm playing through final sanction at the moment and intend to run it's sequel.

Anyway, all I wanted to know was if anybody had experienced this and how they dealt with this particular problem. I had to get a character in a week after the adventure started but managed to improvise him into the adventure (we played an additional session without the others to get him into the storyline).

Anyway this seemed to work and we are ready to resume the adventure properly next week. But I don't think that this is especially suitable for character death and introducing a new character.

Cheers

ItsUncertainWho said:

I like that, and that of course will work really well, I was thinking that in the case of a of an Astropaths message more than one Astropath could receive the message and another ship could arrive just before or after with other marines. Warp travel is a dark art and it is possible that a ship travelling a great distance could arrive before a closer one that also received the message. Possibilities are endless.

I guess that Idealy we GM's would prefer character to survive to at least to the endgame of the adventure. Providing damage limitation along the way.

Mid-adventure, I see character death as a critical problem in DW. Unless you're specifically playing a mission/sequence where more than one kill-team is involved (or if back-up Astartes are 'nearby' [on the ship, for example]), then having a replacement Astartes appear seems mighty difficult.

In terms of replacement XP, my standard trick is a XP 'loss' for getting killed. I.e. the replacement is 2000XP less experienced than the one who died (modified for progenoids/heroic death).

But in the case where there is no viable plot-reason for another Astartes to be present...?

I think my thinking is to let them 'reincarnate' as an NPC (yes, I realise that's an horrific downgrade, but what can you do...). Give them access to most skills/talents at 100XP and tell them to pick an Specialisation's Characteristic Advance Scheme, let them have, say, 1000XP starting XP to 'pick a few talents' and run from there. If they've got time and they're willing and you've got resources, perhaps introduce a DH character reasonably quickly, if there's plausibility.

It's a poor fix, but it keeps the character 'in the game' and its relatively easy to just say "Here's an NPC profile, you've got D5 fate and 1000XP to spend quickly, 100XP per skill/talent obeying constraints." It keeps the player with some involvement.

But beyond that? Well, there's certainly cases where neither are viable. In my estimation that's just a rubbish factor of the game, unfortunately.

If the players are happy with accepting the miraculous reappearance/retcon of a new character, by all means go that way. Player fun >> story, for most people, and I see no reason to trod on people's fun because of this point. (This echoes true for my opinion on female space marines, for me everything points to it being utterly implausible...but hey, if there's good call for overturning plausibility, no point in arguing too much!)

So, in summary: Deathwatch doesn't lend itself well to player reincarnation. Having a pool of spare NPCs 'back on ship' (so as to allow a new character next session) can work, as can having a reasonable supply of 'quick to make' NPCs who can be 'promoted' to PC at a hat-drop. Obvious imbalances in power but, hell, they died...!

(As a final aside: Burning fate to allow characters to survive 'just long enough to end the session, despite being maimed' might work too.)

Deathwatch, like any RPG, is a story being told by a group of people rather than a single author. Introducing a new player character in any RPG after the previous character has died is as simple as introducing a new character in a novel, or a movie. Think back on all the movies you've seen where new characters appear mid-story. The possibilities are endless, though they would obviously be restricted by your setting in terms of what's possible.

Resurrection might be impossible in the 41st millennium, so that idea is out. But perhaps medical technology has progressed to the point where people can be saved much closer to death. Assuming the fatally wounded character can be extracted (not always possible, I admit) then he could be rushed off planet and spend a few game sessions healing. Let the player run a few NPCs for you while he waits.

If there's no logical possibility of saving the existing character, there are a number of ways I can think of to introduce a new character mid-mission:

- If any chapter of space marines is performing operations on the planet, a pod could deliver a new character, as mentioned. Perhaps he was sent with new orders, or perhaps the pod somehow misfired and the character inside hooks up with the PCs while trying to make his way back to his own unit. By the time he reconnects with command, his performance on the team has been sufficient that the team leader requests he be assigned more permanently. If the PC party has an NPC commander they report to, you could make him outrank the newbie's commander and overrule any objections if you don't think it would be realistic for the newbie's commander to agree to such things.

- If there are no other Imperial operations on the planet, perhaps the pod entered orbit after being accidentally fired while the mothership was in the Warp. Who knows where or when such a stray pod might emerge in real space? You can make it as convenient as you need it to be. Perhaps a passing ship suffered battle damage or malfunction and the pod was used as an escape shuttle. The survivor(s) inside have nowhere else to be after they land on the planet, so they agree to help the PCs. You could introduce two or three new characters and then slowly kill off the NPC marines as the mission progresses. Conveniently the only one who survives is the PC who will be joining the kill team.

- While we're on the subject of the Warp, maybe a local planetary warp disturbance spits out a new character from another place and time in the same place where the PCs happen to be. This would be especially plausible if the kill team is currently in Chaos territory.

- Perhaps the new character is a prisoner or a soldier gone AWOL who was trapped/abandoned/run away to this planet and the PCs come across him, rescue him and eventually convince him to join the team when he inevitably proves useful. I'm sure Space Marine chapters have very harsh rules about how to deal with runaways. That could fit in if the player wanted his new character to have a Dark Past flaw of some kind.

- Maybe the new character is an enemy turncoat (this one would obviously depend on who the enemy is for the mission) who helps the PCs accomplish their goal and then joins them. Depending on how creative you feel, you could even use this to introduce a non-marine character like an Eldar aspect warrior or a Tau. Make him equivalent mechanically to a marine, but alter the fluff to describe something else. That, of course, depends on what you feel is appropriate for your story.

- Maybe another kill team was sent on this mission before the PCs, and the lone survivor of that team joins up with yours when they stumble across him.

This is all off the top of my head. If none of these sound good for the story you want to tell, I'm sure you can come up with something else that works better for you. Try renting a few movies that have similar plot ideas to the game you're running. Heist movies, black ops military movies, whatever sounds good. Pay attention for characters who appear mid story and how and why they show up. Maybe you'll get some inspiration from that.

RPGs are all about telling a story. The details may change based on the setting, but there are always ways to introduce new characters into the mix.

It seems that my less tongue-in-cheek rely was eaten by the forum daemon (not demon, because they actually work ).

Rather than type out the entire response once again, rather than taking the "dungeon bash" options like teleporter, pod, and secondary support team, why not have the player take on the role of a character that is appropriate to the adventure? For example, if you're in an urban setting, perhaps the character could take on the role of that street waif that just happens to know the ins and outs of all the streets and underground lairs/dungeons?

What about the PDF officer that has managed to pull together the resistance John Connor style?

It would certain solve the dubious "progenoid issue."

Kage

disincthowler said:

Have the team find a Space Marine in stasis - left behind in a distant past battle with the Xenos. Or a prisoner who has just escaped them!

Or a Battle-Brother who has been monitoring the situation from the orbiting ship which delivered the players.

Or from a dusty watch-station whose records have been lost.

Alex

or a single marine doing recon operation......

and come just in time to save the day.....while another die....

tell us more...and we try to suggest more

Not every member of a killteam has to have gone done in the first wave. And kill team compositions can and do change (it's a convenience of the game that they don't usually in a campaign).

The SM may not be dead but simply mortally wounded. Remeber astartes can put them self in a sort of trans to avoid death, the player could be there able to talk but not to act really.

I'm having the same issue, we have a new player coming in about half-way through Final Sanction. I'm liking the long forgotten watch station recieving the astropathic message and sending help, I might go with that one. I'm not sure how I would handle character death though, I almost feel like if they die during a mission then their gene-seed has to be recovered by the medic, returned home, then they can roll up a new character with no penalties. Doesn't solve the problem of what to do while the rest of the team finishes the mission though. As the GM, I think I might think twice about completely wiping out a player unless the mission was almost over if I were to use this method.

BloodPrayer said:

I used a cheap trick in Final Sanction to introduce a player who could't turn up for the first session: he was on another pod to escape the explosion. The pod got damaged and couldn't maneuver properly and landed on the outskirts of Lordsholm (also thanks to the smoke over Lordsholm from all the fires).

Alex

Is it wrong that the thread is making me think of the term "re-spawn?"

Kage

Repawn? It does look that way, I'm now thinking that if reinforcements are not available to have the player run with a DH character. but give him around 5000 xp to play withone of two things will happen, they play with the character or the adventure is finished before they finish and I have an NPC for another day. Seriously I'm thinking of them roll up a secondry character each using the DH rules and them when needed. True they will be nothing like as powerful but if it is not l really possible to get a battle brother into the action then maybe that is the best way, at least the player gets to play with a character they rolled them selves.

Anyhow when the character dies it may well be quite late in the adventure and by the time they have rolled up the new battle-brother the adventure is nearly over anyway.

give the player a friendly horde to play with that has relatively solid capabilities and a commander that can be separated if the horde is anialated. Something that is relevant to the planet. Be it PDF or guardsmen. You could even put a scout squad together and give the player a more unique niche inside the group.