Brotherhood Cycle Impressions - Poll

By WWDrakey, in 1. AGoT General Discussion

JeffK said:

It's premature to say Bolton or Sand Snakes are strong/weak without knowing the contents of the packs that are going to focus on those themes.

Of course, but that's WWDrakey's fault gui%C3%B1o.gif. I may change my mind, but for now Dubious Loyalties + Abandoned Fort, Reek (~are you talking about this 1STR, Ally guy?) and In Ramsay's Name is just as powerful as new Bran (maybe a little more). Roose Bolton is very fine character but that's not "Bolton theme".

Kordovan said:

You must be talking about "seductive promise" with that 1 card doing as well as Bolton do.

Of course not. I said "other houses". Why everyone think that opponent lets you steal anything?

Rogue30 said:

Sorry but the question was about competitive decks not fun decks.

Needlessly glib response since, as he pointed out, the cards involved have other uses aswell and add to stark's options. Just because a card isn't the best control card or character or location or whatever in the entire game doesn't matter as much as what it allows the deck as a whole to do. You mayaswell say that every draw card except GTM is bad because GTM is better.

Anyway as for the questions:

1. Most interesting?

-Bolton for sure, the only one that feels both truly unique and potentially powerful

2. Most competitive?

-Brotherhood: I'm not a huge fan of how reliant they are on a handful of 'super'' cards, but I think they're already good and just a couple more good cards away from being very powerful indeed.

3. least Interesting?

- Not really fair to say sandsnake I think, so I'll say greyjoy raiders. Dull same old bland mill stuff they've tried and failed to shoe horn in before.

4. Least competitive?

-Clansmen by a mile, many of their cards are just incredibly bad and the overall mechanics themselves just won't hold up in a serious game

Wow, really interesting answers, and also really contrary ones. I think that means that the set has been pretty well designed. :)

I'll try to make a count of all the answers in a day or two, so any late comers can still add their thoughts and opinions.

@LoneWanderer, regarding auto-include neutrals: Good whinge & *****! ;) Yeah, it's starting to be a bit of a pain with at least Varys and Syrio. Not to mention Val. At least carrion bird's aren't in every deck now that there's better in-house cheap chars (Lost Spearman springs to mind...) available. I think Rogue's thoughts on the game needing more effects that encourage sticking to in-house cards would be good, something on the lines of Feral Pack or Bear Island. This would also mesh well with bringing the house keywords back to the forefront. (With something that fixes Stalwart... maybe a unique Stark draw engine location that let's you draw a card if you play a stalwart from your hand?)

@Rogue30: Of course it's my fauit. lengua.gif I thought getting opinions out of people while the set is still developing would be much more fun to see... that's why it was 'Impressions'! And look at how different they are! ;)

And for my own answers:

1. Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?

- Definately Bolton. Really weird mechanic, which has the potential to either be really powerful or just blow up in your face. Sort of like a Goblin Warmachine. The ability to build a deck mainly based on stealing your opponents characters is quite staggering. Playing these guys will require a whole new mindset however... and there still may be an inherent weakness towards pure control decks.

2. Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?

- Hmm. Not Clansmen. (Just don't see it yet) Or Dothraki for that matter. (Not enough strong cheap dothrakis, will be hard to get to win those important M challenges through... and the abilities on the important ones require pure Dothraki attacks. On the flip side, can't keep those important Dothraki alive due to crone...) With Bolton still being on the fence (depends on their own CP, and most of the not-so-good cards for themes have been concentrated in their own CPs :P), I'd have to say Asshai. Largest and most solid cardpool. Makes for pretty scary control builds, and the new cards from KoTS just add more fire to the flame.

3. Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?

- Raider. I just don't think they're really differentiated from the main house themes, and don't feel iconic at all. They only seem to be 'like normal GJ, but with less strength. Eh? Can run a pretty decent draw now though, with LIV and the light-weight-copy thereof. :) Haven't looked at the cards in Silence yet though, so this opinion could change a bit. But probably not. It feels like they re-packaged their leftover mill-cards, and are trying to sell them to us as fresh. =)

4. Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?

- Raider. For the same reasons. And the fact that they are just inferior to existing solid builds.

5. Which House is getting all the love?

- Well, Targ is finally getting some decent characters. Bara got a box full of love. Even neutral House is doing well. But I'll go with Stark. Finally something very different and interesting. Adds options instead of redundancy.

6. Which House is not getting any love?

GJ. Definately.

7. Will neutral house really be viable soon?

- Yup, sure looks like it. ~They also need house words now that they're a real contender for the throne. 'Ours is the blank'? 'Nothing is Coming'? Oh, and some of the cycles need to have them added too... For example, they still need a Fury plot... 'Fury of the Bland'? And how about a 'To Be Empty'?

SharpyShuffle said:

You mayaswell say that every draw card except GTM is bad because GTM is better.

Actually that is precisely how most cards seem to be evaluated, especially by some of our strongest players. I think that is precisely the wrong way to evaluate a card. The question to ask is what other card in this House has a similar effect and how does this compare in efficiency to that/those card/s? Does this card combo off anything better than the others? Does this create increased depth in the mechanic, a useful secondary method of achieving its goal, or useless redundancy?

In this case Stark had how many LCG cards which could steal characters? 0? It looks to be getting an entire theme of stealing characters or methods of trading up. You add to this the cards like Seductive Promise and potentially the MWnK/Reins and you have a deck that is a complete surprise when your opponent reveals the Stark House card. Also one which is incredibly hard to fight against if it is well designed and the Bolton theme continues to progress because you are not able to ever depend on your best characters remaining your best characters.

I'd like to say something about the Sandsnakes but until something is actually released that gives us an idea of what they are all about as a group, and cards that synergize with them it is pretty impossible.

Clansmen are intriguing to me. Rather than going by the Lannister stand-byes of control, control, control, it creates an aggro build which encourages you to play fast and loose. Lannis gold certainly allows you to be able to field a fair amount of characters, and not having to rely on control makes draw less important (not unimportant of course). I just have this feeling that a dedicated Clansmen deck will be able to play against Lannisters typecasting and may make some impact at least in the casual arena if not in the tourney scene.

As much as I would love to see another good Lanni arch-type, they have such good cards at so many levels, it is hard to imagine not building with those cards. Examples would be GTM, Writ Small, Wrong Dwarft, all other kneeling cards, etc.

The good thing, however, is that their refugee IS a clansman, so that helps out the overall theme.

Writ Small would work in any deck from any house. and kneeling out your opponents characters would be able to work as an additional theme... an aggro deck thhat seeks to control the tempo by locking down your biggest characters and shredding everything else. Conceptually.

The question is will any Lanni players actually try it, or will the new direction attract some non-lanni players to the house?

rings said:

The good thing, however, is that their refugee IS a clansman, so that helps out the overall theme.

Right, refugee helps bolton stark, clansman targa and lanni clans. I agree also on the sentence "will this archetype" attract more non lanni player than lanni players??? I speak about myself saying I will try a clansman deck cause I don't love lannister but I love tyrion and clansman parts in the book. At the moment I have difficulty building a clansman deck. I hope to face someone in OCTGN2 that kick my ass with a Lanni clansman so I can steal its secrets :-)

I'm intrigued with their ability to raise the claim: have to try it.

Okay, I did a quick count of everybody's answers, dividing votes between two themes (half for each) when needed, etc.

Without further ado, the results are:

1. Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?

Bolton - 45%
Dothraki - 27%
Brotherhood - 14%
Asshai - 9%
Clansmen - 5%

2. Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?

Dothraki - 27%
Brotherhood - 27%
Bolton - 23%
Asshai - 18%
Clansmen - 5%

3. Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?

Sandsnake - 55%
Raider - 27%
Clansmen - 18%

4. Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?

Clansman - 40%
Raider - 25%
Bolton - 15%
Sandsnake - 10%
Asshai - 5%
Dothraki - 5%

5. Which House is getting all the love?

Stark - 36%
Targaryen - 36%
Martell - 14%
Baratheon - 14%

6. Which House is not getting any love?

Martell - 50%
Greyjoy - 50%

7. Will neutral house really be viable soon?

Yes - 82%
No - 18%

1. Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?

I think so far the dothraki theme is the most interesting. Got a nice location and a nice war character, and 3 ambush cards that can all be useful.

2. Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?

So far brotherhood is not really that competitive IMO, it all depends on what else comes out. The worst so far are raider and clansman. Both themes so far offer cards that are inferior to whatever GJ or Lanni can already marshal. The most competitive so far is by far Dothraki.

3. Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?

The raider theme is so far the least interesting to me because I do not really see anything new with this theme.

4. Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?

I think this one so far is clansmen.

5. Which House is getting all the love?

Mostly targaryen from what I have seen, second being Stark.

6. Which House is not getting any love?

Probably greyjoy to me.

7. Will neutral house really be viable soon?

I think it's viable already. But to be honest I do not see the great advantage of having a neutral house (edit: nevermind, I think I see it :P)