Been a bit quiet here, so I thought I'd liven things up a bit. Since we're now a bit over the halfway point for this cycle, I thought we should have a small poll on what people think of the different new themes we've been getting.

Are the raiders raiding their way into your life, or have the Sand Snakes writhed into your heart? Maybe you've found your true nature in the opportunistic Boltons? Or maybe, just maybe, you've always loved the smell of horses in the morning?

So, post your thoughts and answers to the questions below. Rambling is encouraged. Feel free to include Knights and House Dayne also as new themes, if you feel like it (since both have been getting quite a bit of support).

POLL:

1. Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?
2. Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?
3. Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?
4. Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?

Extra questions (not sticking to just the new themes):

5. Which House is getting all the love?
6. Which House is not getting any love?
7. Will neutral house really be viable soon?

POLL:

1.Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?

Bolton

2.Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?

Bolton

3.Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?

sandsnake

4.Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?

Clansman

5.Which House is getting all the love?

Stark/Targaryen

6.Which House is not getting any love?

Martell

7.Will neutral house really be viable soon?

YES

WWDrakey said:

1) I like dothraki a lot, intresting take on focusing on challenge type without losing the benefits of the other 2.

2) not sure. I think there are some that will be good splashes to houses (sandsnake, bolton, maybe clansmen [can help in mirror mathces]). not sure if there is a viable stand alone one yet. maye assahi maybe dothraki.

3) Raider, its just not needed in greyjoy. for me brotherhood is a also a tad bland...not a fan of not having power on my house card.

4) hmm probably all of them, like I said i envison them as more of splash potiential then full out deck build.

5) i think its fairly balanced right now, especialy if you take the bara box out of the equation. the houses all seem to be getting new stuff to try out while not being overpowered.

6) see above

7) nope...if someone in your meta starts running wild with it, well the answer is already out. Plus i don't think it touches lanni or red viper.

the most interesting? the most 'competitive'?

Clansman, Dothraki.

the least interesting?

Sand Snake theme barely exists (at least for now).

the least of (in competitions)?

Bolton (you must be crazy to give your characters - you won't get them back - it's just naive like LoW Bran).

Raider (there are not enough interesting raiders).

getting all the love? not getting any love?

all Houses got something

Will neutral house really be viable soon?

Yes. Awesome Brotherhood characters. Hollow Hill is kinda scary. Soon we will see some broken decks. Forget Men With No King - it will never win any tournament. If player will be more cautious with his Beric, then he's really hard to get rid of (only Greyjoy have good uncancelable answer: Pulled Under; maybe also Bitter Crone in Dothraki deck)

1. Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?

All of the themes that we've seen so far are pretty interesting. Some, like Dothraki, are obviously competitive powerhouses, whereas others seem more like whimsical design exercises, such as Bolton.

Personally, as a Baratheon fan, I've been finding the Asshai stuff most fun. But that's really just a matter of theme, as it's been a very strong cycle so far.

2. Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?

It's a footrace between Dothraki and Brotherhood at the moment. The absurd multi-house tech from the Hollow Hill and the almost unkillable tank that is Beric, makes Brotherhood decks look like very strong contenders (they're already unpleasant to face and we've only got half the cycle available here in the UK). On the other hand, Dothraki have been given some brutal effects so far and I suspect that a viable competitive deck will make its presence felt at the next big tourney that happens.

3. Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?

So far, Sand Snakes. I was really stoked for a kind of 'reverse Tribal' theme, in which you didn't run lots of guys with the same trait then pump all of them with the same bonus, but instead ran only a couple of unique characters with the applicable tribal trait then turned them into absurd wrecking-balls with other 'we love Sand Snakes' effects. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened so far and all we've seen for Martell are a couple of ho-hum Dayne effects.

Also, I realise that I may be proven wrong in the near future, but I'm slightly turned off by the Clansmen so far. I was really looking forward to them, until it turned out that their gimmick was 'punch yourself in the testicles in order to get a small bonus', which just doesn't really do that much for me. I realise that part of the rationale was probably to take a break from giving Lannister any good new draw/gold/kneel effects and to try to make it do other stuff for a while, but it just hasn't really grabbed me and made me want to build a Clansdude deck.

4. Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?

Bolton.

I just don't get how those guys are supposed to work. Buying gigantic armies and then giving them to your opponents? Probably not a winning combination. Effects like 'In Ramsays Name' and 'Abandoned Fort' give me an inkling of what I'm supposed to be trying to do with the new side-switching dudes, but I just can't see it working out in practice. It all seems like I'll just be handing free claim-soak to my opponent.

Anyway, long story short, I'd love to be wrong about this, but I cannot see Bolton making tournament waves.

5. Which House is getting all the love?

They're all getting some love, but I think that Targaryen and Baratheon have been getting the best love. So to speak.

But then, this is probably a good thing, I'm pretty sure that Lannister and Martell don't really need any more right now.

6. Which House is not getting any love?

Arguably Stark. I can kind of see the new Boltons slipping into a 'War Crest and High Claim' type of build, and I'd consider running The Bastard, Reek and Roose in more conventional Stark builds, but the new theme as a whole doesn't really seem to be going anywhere special.

Alternatively, Martell, who so far haven't really been given any kind of cohesive theme at all. Not that it matters, as Martell has plenty of horrendously good cards to be getting on with as it is (and the, absolutely absurd, new Poisoned Dagger coming in Song of Silence).

7. Will neutral house really be viable soon?

Yes. I confidently predict that Hollow Hill will see to that singlehandedly.

Perhaps it's just rookie overestimation on my part, but that thing looks bonkers.

8. Whinge and ***** about something totally unrelated which is bothering you.

Auto-include neutral characters. They're gradually turning the environment grey.

I love characters like Beric, Thoros, Stonehands, Qhorin and Varys; I really do. But they sure are insane.

Indeed, so good are they, even taken outside of their intended builds (Brotherhood, Night's Watch, Shadows, etc) that it's hard not to just automatically run them in most decks that I build. Not that that's a bad thing in and of itself, it's good to have decent versatile characters that can prop up multiple houses. The downside is that it's probably going to get a little bit monotonous (for my opponents at least) seeing them leap out of everybody's (read: my) decks every week.

What's the solution? Playable 'neutral hate' that comes on cards that are more than mere silver-bullets (/narrow mono-purpose-hate-cards). Without a couple of cards like that, then linear neutral themes like Wildlings and Brotherhood will always run wild, and awesome cards like Varys will make the cut in every deck. In my personal opinion, introducing some kind of potential drawback to 'going neutral' and running a low percentage of in-house cards really ought to be done by FFG in order to keep the meta from becoming too 'grey' in the future. Sure, it'd hold back the multiple neutral-heavy themes that they've run with in recent cycles (Defenders of the North and Brotherhood without Banners), but judging by recent tournament results that's no bad thing; it'd also be a solid investment in the future of the card-pool, helping to ensure that as time goes by and the number of good neutrals inevitably increases, that the themeless all-grey deck doesn't become too much of a competitive reality.

So, erm, rant over. Loving the neutral cards so far, but wouldn't mind seeing each house getting a decent character/location that also came with a method of blasting grey-shields off the table. It'd be good for the meta and it'd be good for the theme; because as we all know, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.

In my next, totally uninvited, rant: Why Summer/Winter is awful, constricting, linear design and what should be done to make it a more interactive and interesting part of the game.

POLL:

1.Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?
Brotherhood or Dothraki

2.Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?
Brotherhood or asshi

3.Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?
Clansman

4.Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?
Raider

Extra questions (not sticking to just the new themes):

5.Which House is getting all the love?
targ and stark

6.Which House is not getting any love?
martell but not really martell the Sand Snake they have not put any of that stuff in the first 4 packs

7.Will neutral house really be viable soon?
played jj noble neutral deck that claimed 13 power in one turn, so yes i do think its a good idea and fun builds. I don't know if it going to be a torny house of yet.

Ok one thing about stark bolton deck is the abilty to take control of your caracter. Them givign a charater the bolten trait and boncing back to hand. Its just going to be fun to play and a pian to play againist. stark got more and more way to build decks its just what one are u going to play.

LoneWanderer said:

I disagree. Neutrals are needed (Ser Preston Greenfield for example). They give you more options, it's good for the game. All characters you mentioned are not auto-include. The problem is not: good neutral characters. Problem is: not enough good in-House characters and neutral gold locations (now you are not encouraged to stick mostly with your House)

Obviously the people who don't see the Bolton decks being competitive or dangerous are not having them played, or played correctly, in their areas. The Abandoned Forts are great for getting back your characters after they switch control (like Reek), for abusing Dubious Loyalties, and many other effects. Without a way for the opponent to get back the cards that the Boltons have stolen, their ability to steal is dangerous in the current environment. And I hate whenever I end up playing aginst them.

I will hold off on my opinion of the Sand Snakes until the next two chapter packs. If they have good synergy, they could easily become the sleeper theme of the set. Imagine if each Sandsnake gave each other sandsnake a boost, or if they all have some useful vengence effects. The game is missing the snakes, and it will be nice to see them come back.

I think the neutral house will become useful, and competitive. They will be weakest against the MWNK deck, which will be weak against most other decks. Hmmm, Bolton + MWNK could be interesting.

1.Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?

- Dothraki, i cant wait to see what the text on Jhogos card says and the effect of his Whip attachment

2.Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?

- Brotherhood and Bolton

3.Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?

- Sand Snakes (but i'm only basing that on what i have seen so far)

4.Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?

- Clansmen (Lannister military seems off)

5.Which House is getting all the love?

- Targaryen and Stark

6.Which House is not getting any love?

- Greyjoy because the theme is bad

7.Will neutral house really be viable soon?

- Might already be

side note. . . Timett Son of Timett gets renown? seriously? Robb Stark no, The Kingslayyer no, Ser Illyn Payne no Timett Son of Timett. . . yes

jack merridew said:

what robb stark core set doesn't have it but the other two do

My two cents:

1.Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?

Interesting is hard to decide, I guess Bolton is the most different build.

2.Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?

Bolton, for sure. Brotherhood makes some nasty tricks with Martell (Patience/Flea Bottom Scavenger), too bad they are absolutely dependant on Beric.

3.Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?

Sand Snake, I have no doubt Martell will get just another overpowered unrelated to anything character. Man, they are just the definition of least interesting

4.Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?

Asshai, Dothraki. No way of being competitive just focusing on a challenge type.

5.Which House is getting all the love?

Martell, as usual. WTF with lost spearmen!

6.Which House is not getting any love?

Every house is getting some love, Ser Eldon for Bara, cool uniques for Targ, Euron for Gjoy, cheapest war crest for Stark...

7.Will neutral house really be viable soon?

It will depend on some oversighted combo, losing access to locations seems no good to me.

And, related to the comments so far, I don't think Clansmen are nothing to laugh at, using Lannister draw & gold advantage to build a good offensive engine was competitive enough before clansmen, now it's just easier and most effective.

Which new theme do you think is the most interesting?

Most interesting has to go to Bolton, it is a big changeup on how the game is played.

Which new theme do you feel will end up being the most 'competitive'?

So far Dothraki

Which new theme do you think is the least interesting?

Clansmen, of what we have seen so far. It is just too different from normal Lanni and doesn't splash well.

Which new themes will we be seeing the least of (in competitions)?

Likely Clansmen, traditional Lanni is too strong to run a gimped mil/power deck out of them.

Which House is getting all the love?

Targ or Bara

Which House is not getting any love?

I think they are all getting alittle

Will neutral house really be viable soon?

I think this new chapter pack made it viable.

Rogue30 said:

I don't think that's actually disagreeing with me.

I too think that neutrals are good things and that we need decent versatile ones in the cardpool. It's just that I also think that we ought to be given access to some, slightly better than mere silver-bullet 'traitor style' cards to deal with mono-grey decks and to discourage people from over-relying on grey-shields to prop up their decks.

Rogue30 said:

Didn't Varys show up in seven of the top eight GenCon joust decks?

I'd say that's getting pretty close to an auto-include. Though obviously that's just a personal opinion.

Further, I suspect that in the wake of 'The North' agendas being nerfed (prior to which we had a short chapter of the game in which, arguably, about 80% of the neutral cards in an entire cycle were auto-includes in competitive decks) we'll start seeing a lot more of that guy, as well as several of the previously mentioned Brotherhood characters, leaping out of a wide range of decks that don't specifically focus on shadow or brotherhood themes.

Anyway, to reiterate, I don't have a problem with good neutral cards. Quite the opposite in fact. It's just that I wish that I could have some way of meta-ing against a field of neutral-heavy decks without having to run either (1) an event that is purely a mono-purpose silver bullet, or (2) a four gold army that forces me to sacrifice several slots in my deck in order to run a handful of very narrowly-focused events in order to unlock its neutral-hating abilities.

WWDrakey said:

WWDrakey said:

Interesting: Brotherhood. Truly a new mechanic.

Competative: Either Doth or Brotherhood. I am a little wary of Boltons still, it seems too easily disrupted (as does Holy) for my own taste - but I haven't played against it competatively and strong players say it is good so I have no reason to disagree.

Theme: Sandsnakes for sure. As usual any GJ theme blows too

Seeing the least of: Sandsnakes again.

House love: Pretty even, espeically with all the good nuetrals.

Nuetral house: I think they are viable with the new location. They can have some serious draw/card advantage power IMHO.

JerusalemJones said:

JerusalemJones said:

That's interesting to hear.

I guess all will become clear in a couple of months; but am I right in thinking that, with the cardpool as it currently stands, the Bolton theme essentially revolves around using Abandoned Fort to yank Boltons back to your hand before your opponent can use them against you (/throw them to Military challenge claim)?

In fact, do you have a skeleton decklist that I could take a look at? It'd be nice to bring something a bit interesting to the table next time I play.

LoneWanderer said:

LoneWanderer said:

I am on the fence on this - I have always loved subthemes, and it is hard to have hate that doesn't hammer you for running more 'broad' decks (which shoudl be viable). I like that you can splash some grey in decks so that I can ONLY play Lanni Kneeling, or ONLY Raiders (or whatever). They are usually uniques, which have an inherent 'negative' to them already. I can't see very many balanced cards that would be good for the game - maybe a 'kneel all characters not affiliated with their house" or something I guess...but nothing like Black Walder.

Varys is an auto-include because of the dearth of anti-ally cards. It was supposed to be a negative trait, so allies are many times very powerful. But with only two cards hitting them (and one of them nuetral), you have to run the one that you can run. I don't think that is an issue with Varys - I think the game would be lessened by him not being in the environment. Plus, he does hit himself if you don't have any options (right, Deathjester?).

LoneWanderer said:

Nick-ler is playing a Bolton's deck, and it can be painful to play against. Using Dubious Loyalties on the opponent's best character can make it so you don't want to commit them to a challenge in which the opponent can steal control. Or playing it on a character with lots of power can easily make that power go away when the character is returned to your hand. It's got a few other Bolton/Stark tricks/traditions as well. I'll ask him to post it the next time I see him.

rings said:

~Maybe he does, and maybe he doesn't.... I'm not telling you my secrets. Varys FTW!

JerusalemJones said:

Really? Wow. Those cards will be banned soon for sure. You just need 3 gold and 2 cards to do what other houses can with 1 card and cheaper or for free. Wow. Amazing.

Rogue30 said:

I am assuming you are being sarcastic. And I think you fail to see the usefulness of this deck.

First off, anyone playing a Bolton deck will be running all 3 Abandoned Forts, if for no other reason than to reliably get the card into play. Let's say the Stark player puts Dubious Loyalties on The Red Viper. The controller of the Viper is going to think twice about attacking with it, because you can return him to hand. And defending, he will likely only do this if he can win because if he loses, the Bolton player gets the Viper. DL makes strong character control for a limited time, but that can sometimes be all that is needed (just like when I don't commit my character with renown to a challenge that I can win because I don't want my opponent to take the power with Elaria Sand).

If the Stark player is using Reek, all they have to do is find a way to win that INT challenge with him attacking and ANY character you control changes control. And if they decide to attack later with Reek, you can get him back.

Now, if I am also running MWNK and reinforcement events, I can get my Bolton characters back from you after they change control, provided you are not running Stark.

There are options herefor Bolton to be dangerous. Yes, other houses can do this cheaper. But that is what this game is about. Stark couldn't do this before, now they can, at a higher price. But they can do it very well, and it gives them more board control and a completely different way to play, or a way to enhance a current theme (such as defend or kill).

Sorry but the question was about competitive decks not fun decks.

I think Bolton will be more competitive than fun pretty soon.

You must be talking about "seductive promise" with that 1 card doing as well as Bolton do. Quite different thing would say, it's only working on non-unique chars. And ,more to the point, you got to get the card in your hand and win a POW challenge by 4. Bolton strategy offers different tricks to steal opponent chars, it multiplies the chances to succeed in this goal.

We can say Sand snake won't be a very effective mechanic as after 4 chpters still not one card (huh!) but Stark chapter remains to be released so Bolton will certainly receive a huge boost one more time.

Wait and see, but Bolton count in the environement, for sure!

There are lots cards to come for Bolton... and I'm quite optimistic they'll become very very strong... hope to use them in next tourney ;-)

I think much of this is tough to answer without the Martell and Stark focused packs released. It's premature to say Bolton or Sand Snakes are strong/weak without knowing the contents of the packs that are going to focus on those themes.

JeffK said:

You must be right. But we do know actually contents that have already focused Bolton/Sand snake.

Bolton : very cheap/strong characters with crest and keywords, tricky attachments and event, and locations that fit perfectly well

Sand snake : nothing.