Background

Daze and Bash don't have a clear method for interaction. Daze reduces available dice, but Bash allows any number of dice to be chosen. Do they both work together, does Daze not work due to the special nature of Bash dice? Or other options?

Question

Q. How do Daze and Bash interact?
A1. Daze does not work at all on a figure with Bash due to the special nature of Bash power dice. A figure with Bash is immune to Daze.
A2. They work together normally. First the figure chooses how many trait dice to add due to Bash, then the figure must lose a (black, green or yellow) dice for each Daze counter normally. Players with Bash might be advised to select more black dice than normal if they know they may lose some due to Daze!
A3. They work together, but slightly differently from normal. First the figure must remove dice from his attack due to Daze. Then, he may choose to add any number of black dice as per the Bash rule. If a figure has bonus black dice or upgrades due to Doom or other effects, then those are taken into account during the dice removal by Daze (a wise OL player will remove those dice first!)
A4. They work together, but slightly differently from normal. First the figure must remove dice from his attack due to Daze. Then, he may choose to add any number of black dice as per the Bash rule.
A5. Something else?

I'm not sure that describing one of the answers as "normally" adds anything useful. If I asked a random person their opinion on how Bash and Daze should interact, and they said "normally", I would not consider them to have answered the question.

Revision: removed all references to normal

Background

Daze and Bash don't have a clear method for interaction. Daze reduces available dice, but Bash allows any number of dice to be chosen. Do they both work together, does Daze not work due to the special nature of Bash dice? Or other options?

Question

Q. How do Daze and Bash interact?
A1. Daze does not work at all on a figure with Bash due to the special nature of Bash power dice. A figure with Bash is immune to Daze.
A2. First the figure chooses how many trait dice to add due to Bash, then the figure must lose a (black, green or yellow) dice for each Daze counter normally. Players with Bash might be advised to more black dice than normal if they know they may lose some due to Daze!
A3. First the figure must remove dice from his attack due to Daze. Then, he may choose to add any number of black dice as per the Bash rule. If a figure has bonus black dice or upgrades due to Doom or other effects, then those are taken into account during the dice removal by Daze (a wise OL player will remove those dice first!)
A4. First the figure must remove dice from his attack due to Daze. Then, he may choose to add any number of black dice as per the Bash rule.
A5. Something else?

Comments: Any more comments before it transfers to faq proposal document?

A2. to A4. are not entirely clear in my opinion, now that I read through them again.

A2. How do bonus power dice interact here?

a. First add Bash dice and bonus dice, then remove Daze dice?

b. First add Bash dice, then remove Daze dice, then add bonus dice?

A3. Does that mean that if the Bash creature has bonus black dice and the OL selects to remove them, he then can still add his usual fill of five blacks? If so, it should be stated more clearly.

A4. Without bonus dice, the creature then has no other option than to remove green or yellow dice. Then it may still fill up to five blacks. Could both be added for clarity.

The portion regarding Doom upgrades in A3. may be left out, since Bash always rolls black power dice only.

What kind of bonus power dice do we have? Doom, Titan ability, Dark Power, anything else?

Do we need extra clarification on Dark Power, or can we safely assume that it works similar to the Power Potion/Daze combo (FAQ entry)?

Probably reference to that FAQ entry to get a consistent ruling ("always first add, then remove")?

Additional bonus dice: Those added in encounters by spending threat, these might work similar to bonus dice gained by fatigue (the FAQ ruling isn´t applicable here since it fails to answer the question about fatigue added dice - might be necessary to add that as well as a follow-up question).

The more I think about it, the more holes I detect in Daze (not necessarily in combination with Bash).

Does Daze work effectively as a removal of a black die or a downgrade of a silver/gold die in ACs, similar to Doom extra dice / upgrades?

Does Daze limit the number of power dice or upgrades that can be added by fatigue after the initial attack roll (by which time Daze should already be resolved)?
(This was basically asked in the FAQ but remained unanswered.)

Similar question to extra dice added by the OL via threat in encounters - does Daze enforce a cap on that?

That all sounds more like a separate question (still in this thread) focusing on bonus/added dice, rather than directly implicating Bash. The results of that question may tail over onto the bash question as well, clarifying most of those uncertainties