I think it fits their reckless feral bestial theme and helps them live up to their reputation for being ferocious melee warriors.

Because Blood Angels already got it and there are already too many close combat focused Chapters in the game.

Maybe you need to read the more recent fluff? Space Wolves aren't berserkers. And, as muzzy said, three CC focused chapters is plenty already (BA, BT, and Storm wardens to some extent).

i gave my S.W. the berserk charge and combat sense...

Gantz the slaughterer said:

Berserk charge fits very well with their TT skills and I've already fogotten what combat sense does. If it's what I think it is then it's very wolf scout.

I think the problem most people are having with the Space Wolves in Deathwatch is that they are comparing them to the tabletop army.

It's my opinion that the Wolves of Deathwatch, and the Space Marines in general, are very different creatures from their tabletop cousins. I would have to say let's try to get away from the tabletop Wolves and lets play our epicness in Deathwatch. One of the greatest parts is that we can go anyway we wish as Space Wolves while other Chapters seem to be very specialized and seem to have to pick between very good choices for what looks to be what they were built for in this game or losing alot and going for something else.

I just would like to make a point clear.

For what i've read in the books, magazine and novels Sw are not a specific Close combat chapter. They are not a bunch of freaking wiking charging in open field, saliva spitting out of their mouths. They are sneaky bastard, waiting in cover for the most surprise effect possible, falling on their ennemy when he expected them the least.

You are playing Dw SM not bloody red claw, young dog still needing to be controlled, just thinking veteran of guerilla warfare.

Yes they look like wikings but they aren't.

I agree that SW are a more versatile chapter than others, thats why I am against giving them a WS bonus. I am also fine with Storytelling, Wolf Senses and the Fel bonus, I think they all fits their fluff very nicely. But I do want SW to have a "savage" feel to it. A simple frenzy talent imho fits and I'm surprised that they didn't get it.

indeed i choose some mod for my space wolf.....because he is a newly recruited blood claw and start like assault marine.....

i think to change from assault to tactical marine career in future......

and after all that do my tour of duty in the deathwatch.....

finally I don't understimate the ability of the wolf to feel the scent of an enemy or tracking him......

I prefere to be aware of the enemy presence an try to controll the beast within...

war within, war without, war unending

A newly recruited marine in the Deathwatch doesn't really fit with secondment to the Deathwatch being an honor for veterans.

yes, i want to become a DW when my fangs grow and my hair become gray.......

i think sbout 5 level in assault squad and five level in tactic squad....for now we play a chapter campaing....

Gantz the slaughterer said:

For Bloodclaws this may be fine. I rather wonder why the more mature Wolves one plays in DW don't have Berserk Charge and Furious Assault. The frenzy days should be rather behind them at this point. I would consider stripping both those talents away from the Blood Angels and giving them to the Space Wolves. They would still be fine close combat marines.

Alex

ok, so do you think about to give the space wolf the berserk charge, and the furious assault as prerequisites?

Gantz the slaughterer said:

Er you do know that you more or less can't swap careers, so won't be able to switch like that, and at the moment there are only 8 ranks a marine can take

another mod suggested.....

what do you think if....

as a space wolf you start as assault marine(Blood claw) after you can change to tactical(grey hunter) and at last as devastator(long fang)

????

You misunderstand one thing: all Marines in Deathwatch have been through all the careers. A Space Wolf who gets send to the Deathwatch is somewhere between Long Fang and Wolf Guard.

Assault Marine in Deathwatch is not a Bloodclaw. It's a Long Fang/Wolf Guard equivalent who has decided to further hone his melee skills while serving in the Deathwatch.

And what I have been suggesting is that one removes two not so important skills/talents from the Space Wolf advance scheme and replaces them with Furious Assault and Berserk Charge to reflect the feral nature of the SW. The Blood Angels, otoh, can do fine without those two skills. They should receive the left-out Trade(Artisan) advances (from +0 to +20, 200 XP each?) instead, perhaps even for free at +0 Trained level.

That would balance the chapters out quite well. The Wolves quite feral but controlled, the Angels leaning to frenzy and having to master that with additional talents yet - but masters of the fine arts.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Feral but controlled Counter attack you can kick that dog, but it sure bites back

tkis said:

I offered my Runepriest player a close combat talent of his choice for free (subject to GM's discretion) and that's what he chose (counter-attack). He also learned Tactics (Defensive Doctrine).

Alex

It's funny how you guys are trying to take the unbalanced part of the SW into this game where most normal Rp players see the really bad imbalance that this setup is creating.

Wolfs are not frenzied beast, Wolverins are. Wolfs are pack hunters with a dangerous cunning.

SW are not zerkers. Wolfen are not, they are beast not all beast are frenzied and most SW with wolfen predominance are destroyed within the Initiation process. A SW chapter would NEVER provide a wolfen bound marine EVER. SW are the most loyal, forgiving and humane SM ever.

The Blood Angels are the real berserker with the Blood lust (Vampire hello!!!!)

Just look how they refuse whole population "cleaning" after the second Armageddon war, how they refused to be governed by the Codex Astartes and are the only legion left for the loyalist...

They are not blood thirsty monster but a PACK that is what a SW should in force into is personage. One of the big concept of a SW is the Lone Wolf concept, a loyal but sad SM, etc. If you want to play a bloody killer playa Flesh Tearer or a CSM!

I have never seen a player roll for an unstable SW but there is a blood frenzy roll for the Angles and succession chapters...

Stop power gaming a concept! Angels are the true frenziers.

To suggest wolfs are stupid frenzied animals shows you know little about the nature of the beast.

btw turning Space Wolves into Blood Angels wanabee isn't serving them right.

Also if u want to play Blood Claw u should penalize their WS and BS at creation from +30 to +20 or lower. Blood claws also are to stupid and reckless to join organisation such as deathwatch. As previously stated SW in Deathwatch is on grey hunter level or even long-fang. (its grey hunter not grey berzerker)

i personaly have small TT army of Wolves and i love their turning from Wulfen/werevolves/beasts to great unorthodox pack hunters.

If anything I agree that the Space Wolves should get Counter-Attack. People are right that the Space Wolves are not the crazed beserkers that they are made out to be. Yes, in battle they fight hard and sometimes recklessly, however it's a controlled rage.

My Space Wolf character is Wolf Guard, one of Wolf Lord Ragnar Blackmane's, and was previously a Grey Hunter. However, a Space Wolf, or any Space Marine in fact, can be accepted by the Deathwatch for assignment no matter their rank. It all is based on their ability to fight the xenos. A Blood Claw could be accepted if, without much experience, he figures out how best to kill xenos by using their weaknesses....and does so.

in the end.....

what all of you suggest???

give the space wolf some mod or it's ok?

My suggestion is, and always has been: add Counter Attack Talent to the Chapter Advancement Table for 500 xp. No other boost or bonus needed. My personal opinion though

Thebigjul said:

Oh they are vikings. They just aren't hollywood vikings but more like the real deal historical ones.... Who, unlike Hollywood, couldn't film a scene again if berserk charge went wrong and actually had to fight with skill in wits. Real vikings used a lot of bows, spears, shield walls and such things. There is very few instances of all-or-nothing-suicidal-charges in viking history.

Oh, and those berserkers... Well, they were a small minority of all the viking warriors, they did not fight naked (as Hollywood believes) and they were rarely used in war. Most of them were probably drug-abusing career-criminals who used the Viking code of single-combat to intimidate farmers and fishermen. Actually they were outlawed by many later viking kings.