In the news:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1718

Dark Young are not really my cup of tentacles but it looks like fun for those who like them. I know we have seen it but worth saying again: more great Ancient One art!

Great for Dark Young. We will see more Dark Young for sure. That subtype has been totally reprinted to LCG, except for a couple, including the only one-cost and wound-sneaking Swaying Branches. They're not cheap, so aren't easy to play well. Recursion from discard and characters from hand is fun. The HDY Nyarly trick was a boost back when. Thematically awesome, they need some help in a parallel Shub tactic.

This card....is Insane.

I mean....I have to hand it to FFG ...they are (true to their plan regarding the Lord "cycle" concept) - really enhancing the core Great Old Ones and giving them some phenomenal powers. I just got my Super-Yog pack in the mail yesterday...sweetness there, as we all know from the Now Infamous Marius thread.

Beyond that....looking at this card, I about dropped my soda.

2-cost....2.....and put into play ALL Dark Young in Hand or Discard Pile. Considering there are tons of ways to get her into play early for Shub (perhaps more than any other deck-type except Yog with its Doppels copying Seekers of Mystery).....this card is likely to be seen much more than other Ancient Ones, even when "played normally".

This means you don't "have" to rely on special effects like Things in the Ground, etc - to get her out.

Consider:

2- New Shub Lord-Character Card

3-Priestess of Bubastis

3-Seekers of Mystery

3-Ghoulish Worshipper

That alone would probably be enough cheap cost-reducers to allow you to get her out on Turn-3/4 MOST of the time. But to truly make it over-the-top, consider a Yog-Shub combo.

Now you can add into that above mix:

3-Doppelganger (can copy ANY of the above Cost Reducers, effectively giving you 12-cards (nearly 25% of your deck) that can reduce cost of Shub-Niggurath, and get her into play much earlier than normal).

Also, the obvious advantage of Yog as a partner is discard effects like Hermetic Scholar (and others) that allow you to mill your own cards into Discard - ideally putting Dark Young there. When Shub comes out...boom...pay 2, and potentially set down 2-3 "nearly free" characters to bolster your ranks.

Alternatively, add in some Card-Drawing elements (like Marius mentions in his article, vis a vis - Yuggoth Contract) ...to make your hand swell with Dark Young...THEN pay the 2-cost ability and set down 2-3 more beasts.

*** - One Question - would the "enters play // comes into play" abilities on most of the Dark Young that are currently in the game still trigger when they are brought into play via the new Shub-Niggurath's ability ? - ***

Rosh87 said:

I believe the only cards that would not work are those that are worded as simply "play", which means "play from hand" as in the text for Deep One Rising.

Did we ever get an official ruling on Yog? Did anyone request an official ruling through the Rules Question link at the bottom of the page?

What benefit is there now to playing Shub-Niggurath from the Core Set?

N/m, I thought about it some more, and I suppose in a deck not heavily geared towards Dark Young, the earlier incarnation of The All Mother would better satisfy. But surely when one's minions consist largely of Dark Young, this one is uncontestedly better.

Absolutely right Marth....there is pretty much NO reason to ever use the (IMHO) crappier "Core" versions of the Ancient Ones - Great Old Ones anymore. I think part of this comes from many player "complaints" or at least....pointing outs (if you will) to the designers // FFG that the original Ancient Ones had several flaws that prevented them from seeing much play in competitive decks:

1.) They generally cost "too much" - note that as the game has developed and new sets been released, there have been more and more "Cost Reducer" cards that really have helped to make this part better - but some decks / factions still don't have easy access to pure "Cost reduction" within their factions (Yog - Hastur, for example)

2.) They lacked enough "ooomph" - in terms of truly useful abilites...to warrant being put into a deck, given all the work you had to do get them out. The original Yog-Sothoth, for example, always felt awfully ....cheap....to me...given that he had NO abilities when he actually made it into the game. The only thing that was even mildly "cool" about him was that you MIGHT be able to get him into the game a little earlier than some of the other big Ancient Ones....but once he's there...ho-hum....he has no actual "special effect" on the game beyond his icons and Invulnerability.

-

The new "Lord" cycle of Ancient Ones in Yuggoth Contract, however, are notably stronger than all their previous versions - with "Perhaps" the one exception of Hastur - the King in Yellow from the Core Set. He's the only one that is still "sort of cool // good" - with his ability to drive a target Insane, "from range" - but even then...his weakness is anything with Terror or Willpower...and he's neutered. The Lord of Carcosa version, by comparsion, laughs in the face of Willpower and Terror...meaning he can drive even mighty Cthulhu (or any other Ancient One, really !) completely Insane...maybe not directly...but in concert with other cards and his ability.

Pay-2 ...remove Cthulhu's Terror icons.... play Victoria Glasser...boom.... job is done. If you really want to get rid of him, throw a Sirens of Hell into it to destroy him.

Point is, the new Hastur is far more versatile than the old one...and features increased Skill (7) to boot !

The same thing is seen in this new Shub card. There is really no reason whatsoever that you would want to WILLINGLY play the older version of her (that I can think of ?) - where you are saying "Yes ! I want to pay 1-more (7) to put her out...and Yes ! - I want to have 1-less Skill (7), compared to her new version !"

Since nobody would ever actually say that...not to mention new Shub's ability is FAR, FAR more devastating to the enemy and, with a little preparation and combo with Yog-Sothoth discard effects, I can't think of any reason why a player would ever grab "old Shub" when they could have "new Shub".

* note that IF - IF - Old Shub's ability was "Pay 3 and search your deck for a SHUB character (any type) and put it into play" - then it might still have a nice purpose / effect to it. But as it is ....the new one is just so hugely superior the old one.

I think that all of the ancient ones from the new packs have been stronger than the core except for perhaps the exception of the original yog sothoth (As time goes on, more and more of yog decks are comprised of spells, making it possible for a turn 3 ancient one quite reliably), but this new Shub Niggurath is just beautiful and completely sums up what an ancient one should be in my mind.

That having been said, where the hell were my Mi Gos in the last pack, and it doesn't appear as if I'm getting any more in this one, so It's hard not to feel somewhat stilted as I don't feel there are yet enough mi gos to truly run a "mi go deck".

I agree with you on the Mi-Go's....there are not nearly enough of them - I think only 6 or 7 - meaning 18 - 21 actual characters if you did three of each...and that's below what most decks want to run (30 Characters in 50-card deck)...so you always have to shove in other stuff.

Also, they lack enough "Mi-Go Only" gear - that would help augment their abilities ....so far the only one is Mi-Go Scalpel (good card, but again...only one !)

Lastly, I still think the Mi-Go cost (on average) too much for what each brings you.

They are completely shut down by any Terror - since none of them (to date) have it...and they lack any substantial means of reducing their costs (you have to rely on things like Priestess of Bubastis). There should be a specific Mi-Go character that does what Priestess does...passively...like Ghoulish Worshippers do for Ancient Ones.

Ideally:

"Mi-Go Spawner "

1-Combat, 1-Arcane, 0-Skill

Cost-2

"The cost for you to play other Mi-Go characters is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 1".

When do we get things like this to help the Mi-Go, FFG ?

Optic Warehouse, Mi-Go Dreams, and the Scalpel are Mi-Go helper cards. There are a few others but they are not all that great.

Since we only have one Shub card spoiled so far it is too early to tell if there will be more Mi-Go support in this AP.

...and FFG was so nice in trying to link to South Park, but ofcourse Viacom complained to youtube about copyrights.

Here is a picture, though:

Why would you play shub niggurath with goulish worshippers, seek er of mysteries an so? You can play his hability turn 2 with a little trick. But, well, there just dark young people. A terror icon, a combat icon and 2 skill. Hungry dark young, thank god, can make things more interesting.

Concerning core set ancient ones, I prefer the old cthulhu. But, clearly, I prefer ancient ones that can change things when they re in play. And that was not the case with core set ancien ones.

B_P said:

Yeah, I'm not too thrilled about DYs in general, but Ancient Guardian is nice (cost-4, TTCC and for 1-cost ready a character/support).

Marius said:

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with the topic. I see Cthulhu in the picture, but that's it.

MarthWMaster said:

I was referring to the article in which Shub was spoiled .

There are a couple good cards that can let you not resolve Fear challenges, Optic warehouse being probably the best one of them, the other one I like Is Parallel universe, which due to specimen chamber you can get a load of skill on your mi gos to overwhelm stories.

Mi gos feel like they are on the edge of playability, and I'm kind of surprised that the new Shub Niggurath has no interaction with them, as they are also among her worshipers no?

raohthekenoh said:

Maybe not Shub, but an Ancient One directly connected to Mi Go, especially if it provided a cost-reduction or an ease of entry for the Mi-Go's, would truly bring a deck of theirs closer to playability levels. Why should only Cthulhu get access to a million Ancient Ones? Does he throw the best parties or something?

C'mon guys, Mi-Go playability ???

They are already well represented, as the Mi-go starts to have signifiant supports (Laboratory allowed you to sacrifice, just look at the Take of Control and you'll see what I mean, Brain Cylinder allows you to filter your deck, ...).

They benefit huge effect (like the Val of Pnath, Parallel universe), and can use the Shoking Trans.

They already have a nice partnership with Y'golonac, as this one can be used as a "commission director", which can avoid the Mi-Go family to encounter Ravager or Terror-iconed characters. That more than enough for me.

If you consider the scalpel, empty sockets (which is purely designed for the mi-go, just look what it takes away and what you gain!) and the mi-Go Box, you have enough stuff to encounter almost every kind of decks (discard, draw, rush, weenies) except the combo ones, but you might use neutral to fulfill the blank here.

They have the benefit of the priestess, can now handle Terror (which was their dreaded threat), via the warehouse + futur stuffs which are coming to increase all the family strenght.

That's why I actually consider them worth playing !!