Hi folks,

after a long time of lurking and reading here, I finally registered because I do have a problem. A friend of mine and I have been playing the LCG against each other for a few months now and it has always been a blast. We bought 2 Core Sets, all the expansions and a lot of chapter packs and split them between us, with my friend getting everything for House Stark, Baratheon and Martell, and me getting all Targaryen, Lannister and Greyjoy cards.

So, everything was fine and fun and we had a lot of close matches until my friend started playing a Stark Direwolf deck similar to the "Direwolves in the North" one that was published with one of the expansions: the Direwolves, Kennel Master, Robb, etc. plus the Siege Of Winterfell Agenda.
I cannot win against this deck. I tried it countless times with Lannister (my main house), Greyjoy, Targaryen and even Baratheon, but there is obviously something I'm missing. His deck has such an amazing kill engine (and lots of possibilites to have a claim of 2) that I just can't keep anything on the board for very long. A Valar is good for a round or two, but then he just continues killing. The deck has such amazing synergies that I regularly end up with 10 to 15 cards in my dead pile.

So, my question is: What am I missing? There surely must be a way to counter a strong Stark Military deck, but I seem to be too blind to see it. One of the problems is that both my Targaryen and my Greyjoy deck are still lacking important cards (and duplicates of them), so my only good deck is the Lannister one (built to kneel).

Is it possible to see both decklists?

Things an only military deck suffer are continuity in reset. So Valar and westeros bleeds (if you play martell or targa you have lots of influence).

Martell Red Vengeance and burning on the sands help a lot slow the, If you arrive at plot round you can play 2 valar in a short time. Remember that stark has not a reliable draw engine so they cannot resplash the table so easy after 2 resets.

Also Lanni iperkneel should help you a lot and with golden tooth mines you have a draw engine that in mid game should make you win your opponent.

Anyway, stark archetype is really strong...

Sure. My Lannister deck is always subject to change but here's the one I keep at cardgamedb.com as a "core" version. Remember that we only own 2 Core Sets.

House
House Lannister (Core) x1

Character
Cersei's Attendant (Core) x2
Enemy Informer (Core) x2
Lannisport Steward (Core) x2
Lannisport Weaponsmith (Core) x2
Ser Ilyn Payne (Core) x1
Ser Jaime Lannister (Core) x2
Shae (Core) x1
The Hound (Core) x1
Jhalabar Xho (TWot5K) x1
Castellan of the Rock (BoRF) x3
Mountain Refugee (RoW) x3
Lion Herald (SB) x2
Ser Jaime Lannister (TTotH) x1
The Hound (PotS) x1
Cersei Lannister (Core) x1

Location
Golden Tooth Mines (Core) x2
Lannisport (Core) x2
Lannisport Brothel (Core) x2
Queen Cersei's Chambers (Core) x2
The Goldroad(Core) x3
Western Fiefdoms (Core) x2
Hall of Heroes (Core) x1

Event
A Lannister Pays His Debts (Core) x2
Distraction (Core) x2
I'm You Writ Small (Core) x2
The Lion's Will (Core) x2
You've Killed the Wrong Dwarf! (Core) x2
To Be a Lion (SB) x1

Attachment
Bodyguard (Core) x1
Gilded Plate (Core) x2
Gutter Rat's Cunning (Core) x1
Milk of the Poppy (Core) x1
Devious Intentions (BoRF) x2
Flogged and Chained (TftRK) x3

Plot
Blockade (Core) x1
Hear Me Roar (Core) x1
Wildfire Assault (Core) x1
Mutual Enemies (Core) x1
Take Them by Surprise (LoW) x1
Fury of the Lion (AE) x1
Building Season (Core) x1

The Stark deck is similar to the "Direwolves of the North" decklist. I don't know the exact changes my friend made, but they are only small.

House: Stark

Agenda: The Siege of Winterfell

Plot Deck:

Summoning Season
Storm of Swords
Take them by Surprise
Wildfire Assault
Mutual Cause
Counting Favors
Respect of the Old Gods

Characters:

Brans Stark (core)
Hodor
Jojen Reed
Catelyn (core)
Eddard (LoW)
Robb Stark 3X (LoW)
Arya Stark
Sansa Stark (core)
Kennel Master
Lady (core)
Direwolf Pup
Wolfpack 3X
Summer (LoW)
Host of the Bear 3X
Winterfell Reserves
Qhorin Halfhand 3X
Ghost
Jon Snow
Maester Aemon
Benjen Stark
Rorge

Locations:

Street of Steel
Street of Sisters
Narrow Sea 3X
Northern Fiefdoms 3X
Lord Eddard's Chambers
Crossroads
Great keep 3X
Wolfswood
Winterfell Kneels

Events:

Winter is Coming
Lethal Counterattack
Distraction
Wolf Dreams 3X
Endless Endurance
At Night they Howl 2X

Attachments:

Nymeria (core)
Grey Wind 3X
Shaggydog 2X
Frozen Solid 2X

Since you play flogged and chain i Would play city plots to have more kneel in the deck (since you don't have 3x core set events).

I don't like Cersei Core Set and lion heralds. I would put in Arys and Varys and Syrio.

If you make a shadow deck Tyrion Lannister shadow is a must have,

Locations: brothel is unique (faqed) so maybe second copy is useless also because you wanna play search location plot). The chamber is unique so second copy is useless. I never play lannisport so 2x surely is excessive, also because you don't run plot and cards to have multiple intrigue in challenges.

Toll gate (3x) are far more difficult to face and your friends wolf will not love them.

If you play shadow use guild alchemist (remember faqed at limited response so only 1x)

Attachements:

Gilded plate and bodyguard are totally not in love with me :-)

Plots:

I would use 5 city plot valar + fury

but

if you don't wanna play this kind of deck Take them is quite useless cause you have money. Against aggressive deck wildfire do nothing so play valar :-)

I suggest you to look at Lannister deck won gencon to have an overview of a strong lanni deck.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=10&esem=4

Gualdo already gave you good advice. Just to add:

The main problem is that you have only x2 cards - you need to make deck more efficient. x3 Distraction makes huge difference for example.

Try Nightmares x3 - my favorite card.

Consider The Hand's Judgement and Condemned by the Council.

Shae, The Hound (core) - throw it out

Ser Jaime Lannister - leave only 1 copy (which one depends on your strategy)

Cersei Lannister - throw it out, Dominance is too late and you have no gold for this

Lannisport - nice card but forget it

The Lion's Will - throw it out, it's too expensive

You have too many attachments
Bodyguard, Gilded Plate - useless
Gutter Rat's Cunning and Devious Intentions - throw it out, events and characters are better for this job
Milk of the Poppy - it's ok but I prefer Nightmares

Wildfire Assault - add or change to Valar
Mutual Enemies - this is mistake, right?
Building Season - I don't like it - your opponent will take kennels

It's very important if you go first and when. If you make wrong decisions, then you will lose no matter what cards you have in deck. You both have similar initiative chance, that means your opponent will often decide. You need to focus on intrigue. Play Valar as soon as he dominates the table, and then you should outdraw him (that's why efficient deck is required - you need to draw only those most effective cards).

Thanks for your comprehensive replies, Gualdo and Rogue30. I already knew that my Lanni deck was not optimized, I just didn't know it was *that* bad No wonder that I was constantly losing against that pre-made and well-thought out Stark deck.

I'll try to make the deck more efficient and really focus on Intrigue and Kneel. I knew I had too much cards that weren't overly useful, I just lack the experience to know what works and what not. Now I have a starting point and will spend some time tonight to build a new deck. Tomorrow we'll have another playing session and I'll report afterwards how it played out.

By the way, I find that the AGoT LCG has quite a steep learning curve. After a few session (and extensive studies of the FAQ/flow charts) we managed to understand the core mechanics and some of its subtler touches, but I still lack a proper understanding of the meta-game: how and when to play certain cards, what synergies there are, which card may be better, etc. So your help is really appreciated!

I started playing since 1 year and a half and the first game were so difficult. The secrets to improve is only playing playing playing and understand well faq and phases flow. When you rule the Faqs you rule the game ;-)

Ps and when you have any rule doubt post in the proper section. This helps a lot!!!

Gualdo said:

In most cases you are correct in saying that Stark suffers from lack of card draw but with the DW deck they can get around this with 3 Winterfell Kennels. Yes you pay a gold each time but most wolfs are 1 to 3 gold to get out so with a few fiefdomes or godswood you get them out for free. As well Val works well in this type of deck too. But then what deck doesn't she work good in lol

Regarding Valar over Wildfire, this is, I believe, a mistake. You want both in your deck. Hit him with Valar to slow him down early, probably turn three, while you are getting your better kneel cards in play and when he starts to get away from you again hit him with Wildfire. Your kneel should be able to keep those three characters knelt down (or at least some portion of them). You want his hand empty of cards before you play a reset, or as close as you can get. Don't worry about your characters dying, they aren't important. Just like in the books the Lannisters care only about one thing, the game of thrones. Your characters are going to die, just accept it and use them for that round or two they are in play to rob your opponent of cards. These will often be unopposed challenges which is how you will get your power.

The advice already given has been great regarding deck building, the next part to handle as you rightly guessed, is tactics and strategy. No matter what hints and suggestions you get here, only playing will get you to the point when you should do a thing and when you should not.

Valar is a crutch. There are plenty of ways to compete without it.

Stark actually has a couple of efficient draw engines anyway: Blackfish and Guard at Riverrun.

Stark opponents should be running 2-3x Milk of the Poppy to neutralize Stark's strong special abilities

My group makes heavy use of "soak" characters to deal with Stark's 2+ claim. For example Maester Aemon (saves himself to soak claim), Refugees & other zero-cost characters, and also Reinforcements events.

Each of your houses strong soak cards

Targ: Viserys, Maester Aemon

Lannister: Bronn , I Never Bet Against My Family

Greyjoy: Iron Mines, Risen From the Sea, Aeron Damphair, Maester Wyndamyr, Tarle the Thrice Drowned, Many Powers Long Asleep

As to plots, try leading with Uneasy Truce. On later turns Stoic Resolve works wonders as long as your opponent plays an initiative 5 or lower plot.

If all else fails, you can always go with one of the he silver bullets against Direwolves: Lineage and Legacy (plot) or Fights No Sword Can Win (event)

Hmm, now I feel even more confused than before. As I was rebuilding my deck yesterday, I noticed that I really need some cards from the King's Landing cycle, especially as I want to try a Shadow Lannister variant. I ordered the missing chapter packs, but for now I'll have to try with what I have.

Here's my new deck, even though I feel it is even weaker than before. Man, I need to learn so much more about this game
I went with Valar + Wildfire and mostly disposable characters on my side. Main focus is on winning Intrigue challenges and getting my power throught them. I included a copy of the Tourney Jaime and Core Tyrion mostly for filling up my ranks and to have additional kneel and draw. Comments are as always very welcome.

House

House Lannister (Core) x1

Character

Bronn (Core) x2
Castellan of the Rock (BoRF) x3
Cersei's Attendant (Core) x2
Chella, Daughter of Cheyk (Core) x2
Enemy Informer (Core) x2
Grand Maester Pycelle (Core) x2
Jhalabar Xho (TWot5K) x1
Lannisport Steward (Core) x2
Lannisport Weaponsmith (Core) x2
Lion Herald (SB) x1
Mountain Refugee (RoW) x3
The Hound (PotS) x1
Bringers of Law (AE) x2
Carrion Bird (TWoW) x2
Ser Jaime Lannister (TTotH) x1
Tyrion Lannister (Core) x2

Location

Golden Tooth Mines (Core) x2
Hall of Heroes (Core) x1
Lannisport Brothel (Core) x1
Queen Cersei's Chambers (Core) x1
Sunset Sea (Core) x2
The Goldroad (Core) x3
Toll Gate (AE) x3
Western Fiefdoms (Core) x2
Shadowblack Lane (Core) x2

Event

I'm You Writ Small (Core) x2
To Be a Lion (SB) x1
A Lannister Pays His Debts (Core) x2
The Hand's Judgement (TTotH) x1
I Never Bet Against My Family (Core) x1
Distraction (Core) x2

Attachment

Flogged and Chained (TftRK) x3
Milk of the Poppy (Core) x1

Plot

Fury of the Lion (AE) x1
Hear Me Roar (Core) x1
Blockade (Core) x1
Valar Morghulis (Core) x1
Wildfire Assault (Core) x1
Uneasy Truce (Core) x1
Let My Porridge Fly (PotS) x1

Don't take more than 1 copy of unique characters unless you really think it's part of your main strategy.

Shadowblack Lane has Limit 1 per deck.

Where is Arys? You have PotS, right?

You've Killed the Wrong Dwarf! - Bring it back

"Where is Arys?"

Good question. I really need to keep all my cards in one place. Will add him as soon as I find him.

Thanks for pointing out that Shadowblack Lane is limited 1 per deck. I removed it from the deck together with the second Tyrion and added 2 x You've Killed The Wrong Dwarf. I'll the Lion Herald for Arys.

Thank you very much again for taking your time to help me! It is very much appreciated.

I tend to have little trouble with the Stark Siege deck when playing Lannister.

Lanni has an unnatural ability to just kneel everything. I typically run with 3x Distraction, 3x You've killed the wrong dwarf, 3x castelan, 3x enemy informer, 3x Cersei's Attendant, 1x Jaime (the one that kneels when he's unopposed) just to get started.

As for location's I typically run 1x Alchemist guild hall and at least 1x Toll Gate for more control.

You can play a Shadow deck w/o getting too heavy, I currently have 7 or 8 shadow's cards in my lanni and 3 of those are Tyrion.

On top of all the kneel, Lanni is remarkably good at counting lots of gold. Usually 2x Steward, 3x Weaponsmith, 3x Goldroad, 3x Kingdom of Shadows, and 1x Queen Cersei's Chambers provide you with plenty.

As Gualdo said, the city plots are just fantastic in Lanni. I am running 5, valar, and Fury as he stated.

Making the deck more focused will help it out tremendously.

I imagine you could put some thought into Targ as well to take down a siege deck. Good attachment control, and easy to burn a bunch of weenie direwolves.