Background:
There is still potential uncertainty about the timing of the Use of Crystal of Tival and similar items.
"Discard after equipping at the start of your turn to recover 6 wounds and restore your fatigue to its maximum value."

This can be read as
a) '[discard after] [equipping at the start of your turn] to...'
b) '[discard after equipping] [at the start of your turn] to...'

Both have reasonable effects with costs of use and restrictions.
a) effectively means discard any time during your action, so long as you equipped it at the start of your turn (ie didn't find it in a chest this turn).
b) effectively means discard immediately after equipping, before declaring your action.
Both mean that the hero is effectively sacrificing an 'other' spot for his turn, barring re-equipping).

Question:
Q. Must the crystal of Tival and similar items with the wording "Discard after equipping at the start of your turn to..." be discarded *immediately* after equipping in step 2, or at any time during step 3 as along as it was equipped during step 2?
A1. Yes. These items can only be discarded for effect at the end of step 2 and before step 3 begins.
A2. No. These items may be discarded for effect at any part of the turn, after they were equipped in step 2. This means they may be discarded for effect mid way through a hero action (step 3) as long as they were already equipped in step 2.

Did you take into account the answer from the GLoAQ / Eldest Forum?

Q: "There are three treasures that offer one-time healing to a hero: Jinn's Lamp, Amulet of Healing, and Crystal of Tival. All three say "Discard after equipping at the start of your turn..."... Should "at the start of your turn" just be ignored, or does it have some other significance?"

A: It can only be used at the start of your turn after Step 2: Equip Items. The result is that you will have only 1 Other item (if any) equipped.

Parathion said:

Thanks.
I managed to miss it. I probably even copied it through onto the "combine the GLOAQ" thread while still missing it.

I guess that is one thread more or less dealt with!

I guess it will be part of the dealing with the GLOAQ thread later (proposal to move all current appropriate GLOAQ answers into the official FAQ and 'clear' the GLOAQ thread for new "answers".)

I already made a post in this thread suggesting this might be best handled with a new question, but lest the connection get lost when someone comes back later to summarize this issue, I thought I'd better bring it up in this thread, too:

There's a possible contradiction between the answer Parathion quoted from the GLoAQ and the FAQ ruling that "start of turn" effects can be resolved in any order the player chooses, since the former says that the item is used at the start of your turn, but also that it must happen after another thing that happens on your turn (which, presumably, cannot happen any earlier than "the start of your turn"). And if both of those things happen "at the start of your turn", then according to the FAQ you should be able to choose the order.

There are several possible ways to resolve that, including:

• restricting the scope of the "start of turn" ruling in the FAQ,
• using some phrase other than "start of turn" to describe when this item is used, or
• throwing out the GLoAQ answer on this item and ruling that the "start of turn" language is referring to the re-equip and the item is actually used during your turn...which would actually have to be after you declare your action, in the absence of any other special rules, since "A hero is not allowed to do anything except refresh and equip before he declares the action he is taking." (JitD rules p.8)

I also think we should clarify either what constitutes a "start of turn" effect in a hero turn, with all effects being freely arrangable by a hero player according to the FAQ answer, or to further clarify the use of the healing or similar items stated above.

Similar items with the exact same wording include Curse Doll and Remove Curse, the latter being uncritical in timing, while the former could be used to get rid of Bleed, Web, Frost, etc. tokens before they can take effect.

Parathion said:

I would also like the future FAQ to clarify if effects (like those of bleed or burn tokens) must be dealt with first, or if actions (not the rules-defined "declaring the action for the turn", but "actions" as defined in the dictionary: doing stuff) like equipping can be mixed in between such effects. The current FAQ seems to suggest that effects must be dealt with first:

Q: What is the proper timing of events that occur “at the beginning of a player’s turn”?
A: When multiple events may occur “at the beginning of a player’s turn,” such as a hero affected by multiple different status effects like Burn and Bleed, that player may decide in which order to resolve them. The player must resolve all “start of turn” effects before proceeding with the rest of his turn (p. 4).

However, that would prevent doing stuff like equipping the Cursed Doll to get rid of those tokens, even though that's precisely her purpose. It would also prevent Sahla from using his specific ability. Should those two be specific exceptions, or should that FAQ answer be reworded?

All these "at the start of the turn" problems come from the fact that in Descent, "at the start of the turn" is way too long ruleswise. If you have steps that divide your turns, "at the start of your turn" should be step 1 and that's it. Any step that comes after should be "after the start of your turn".

If you can re-equip before any "at the start of your turn" effects happen for instance, then re-equipping should be included in step 1.

Also, if the start of the turn can have a certain length, using " during the start of your turn" would be less confusing.

In Descent, it seems that "at the start of the turn" stuff can still be taking place when your turn actually started eons ago.

This thread effectively closed - moved to #43.