Antistone said:

Can you refer me to the text where it says that moving a space, making an attack and drinking a potion can be done at any time during the hero's turn?

That specific wording is only in use for using fatigue for movement, placing orders, and using skills. Other than that, I have no justification for my stance. However, the fact is that other potential actions do not include this wording.

Sorry, Antistone, I feel like I am letting you down in an interesting discussion, but I am really not up to this for now. Just reading the posts makes my head spin.

I'll come back to it if I remember later, and get my fix for now on the easy stuff.
Sorry.

dragon76 said:

Ah. So you're attempting to draw a distinction between things that you can do "during your turn" (optionally, and in an order of your choosing) and things that you can do " any time during your turn", in those exact words?

I would argue that something that can be done "during your turn", with no restrictions stated anywhere on the timing, is equivalent to something that can be done "any time during your turn". I would further suggest that Descent's track record makes it exceedingly unlikely that such a subtle difference in wording was used intentionally to indicate a difference in rules.

But OK, that is technically an objectively verifiable difference. You have met the qualifications for being a rule that could hypothetically be followed.

Antistone said:

I'll take that as high praise indeed given it's source

I'll be the first to admit it is pretty thin, but it is there and in the case of placing orders and using skills it is always highlighted in some way.

On a side note, if this is the intended mechanic as written, (not saying it is, just that the distinction is there) it appears a hero could take a ready action, open a chest triggering a mimic or killer chest and then place a dodge order to help survive the resulting attack. Not gonna come up often, and even when it does not necessarily the choice that will be made, but it could certainly have it's uses at times.

A quick reading of Dodge indicates nothing saying the attacks must be during the OL's turn, and the order lasts until the beginning of the hero's next turn so there is nothing there that would make this an invalid sequence of events. It would be the same as if the hero placed the dodge order before spending his first movement point. A way of hedging if you are worried about a mimic or killer chest while still giving yourself the chance to take a Rest, Guard or Aim order if the OL either doesn't have it or chooses not to play it.

I was always pretty uneasy about Dragon76's 'place an order' inclusion, but it helped me crystalise (I think) the 'rule' I was intuitively using.

First, consider what a hero is enabled to do implicitly only during his 'activation' (ie step 3, afte he has declared an Action. There are three implicit sets of things he can do that are entirely based.
i) make attacks
ii) spend movement points
iii) place orders.
Making up a unique term for these things, lets call them 'active events'.

I think , my 'rule' is that a hero may do anything that is not an 'active event' during his turn even while being interrupted or 'mid event'.

This rules out drinking a potion, for example, because it is spending MP.
It also rules out placing an order.

Note that I am not, for a moment, claiming that this is official. I think this is an enormous 'grey area'.

Corbon said:

That certainly seems like a reasonable 'rule' by which to play. As I said before, I am not particularly advocating my argument just trying to discuss it at length to find any flaws or resolutions that come about as a result.

It is however clearly stated and worded that an order can be placed at any time during the hero's turn in bold on page 8 of the D:JitD booklet under the Ready action. At any time is worded as an absolute and therefore under the RAW orders should be able to be placed even during interupts of any nature provided they occur during the hero's turn.

The list you have there appears to be a list of activities that can be permitted by your declaration of action (advance, battle, etc.). The list of things that you can only do during step 3 of your turn is considerably longer than that. I don't know what "implicitly only" during step 3 of your turn means; you're only ever allowed to do things when the rules say you can do them, so everything you can do is "implicitly only" allowed under the conditions described in the rules, until you run across another rule or card that creates an exception.

Saying that you can do any "during your turn" things except for the three things that your declaration of action potentially allows you to do is a clear (if seemingly arbitrary) distinction, though I would point out that you've only barred spending movement points, not performing movement actions, so that criteria still allows performing movement actions that don't require movement points (such as picking up a potion off the ground), and in Enduring Evil would allow movement actions when you have a way to avoid paying movement points for them (drinking a potion with a Bandolier, re-equipping with the Prestidigitation skill).

Also, this appears to allow a hero to use Telekinesis, and in Enduring Evil, skills like Alchemy or Symbiosis. Is that intentional?

And you'd need to state whether you can do the things on your forbidden list (such as making an attack) if you are allowed to do them because of a triggered ability, rather than a "during turn" ability. For example, can you make an attack with Alertness?

dragon76 said:

That's not implied. Guard orders can be used "at any point during the overlord's turn", but the FAQ clarifies that you still have to allow an action to be completed in its entirety if you don't use the Guard before it starts (for example, you can't use your Guard between a monster makes an attack roll and when damage is applied).

An absolutely strict reading of "at any time" would allow you to do something at absolutely any conceivable point, but games don't usually use that particular phrase that strictly, and in Descent they explicitly don't use it that strictly. In fact, when I wrote rules to a game that actually did use those words to mean that, the players got confused.

Background:

Guard clearly states it may be used during the OLs turn and not during a hero's turn.

However the FAQ pg7 answer states that the Guard can be used to "interrupt the OL at *any* time".

At least one player therefore believe that this answer overrides the original rules and a Guard order may therefore be used during a hero's turn to attack a mimic for example.

We all know he is wrong, but he does have a technical point.

Ideally therefore, this answer should be edited to say "...interrupt the OL at any time *during his turn*. ..."

Kevin has supplied an aswer which is now in the GLOAQ
"Hi David,

I sent you an answer a week or two ago, but I guess it didn't reach you. Guard cannot be used against a mimic until the overlord's turn, so it cannot immediately attack.

-Kevin

Proposal:
Amend FAQ pg 7 answer.
Replace " A: Guard orders can interrupt the overlord at any time. However, ..."
with " A: Guard orders can interrupt the overlord at any time during the Overlord's turn . However, ..."

Despite 3 pages of discussions, none of it was really applicable. I'll assume this can go in to the FAQ proposal document as it is...