Hey all, a situation came up during play:

I have Church of Sigmar, that increases the cost of targeting my units (global). And the Dark Elf player wants to Seek New Slaves in my discard pile. Does it cost extra? Seeking New Slaves says target unit, but does the Church extend to my discard pile as well? Can I play Iron Discipline on a unit in Discard Pile?

Also, a side question. Can I target a attachment support card with Rodriks Raiders? For instance flipping one of the DE Hexes into a development in my own zone? Is that possible?

Thx in advance

Casper

edderkoppen said:

1. Church does not apply to units in your discard pile. Also, SNS does not say "target" it says "choose".

2. Yes, it just says "target support" no other restrictions.

My version of SNS absolutely does say 'target'. I don't disagree to your interpretation, and we defintely played it out that way, but I just can't find any "proof" of it. You could argue that Church doesn't target your unit, but rather the opponent and his targeting as opposed to Iron Discipline which clearly targets your own units.

Also, regarding the Rodrik Raiders, again, I'm not disagreeing, but it does make for some odd situations, such as flipping over a DE Hex and then picking it up with the Long Winter tactics. Can you then play it from your hand? (I don't have a copy of the rules at my desk, so I'm not concrete on the wording of Order and Destruction cards).

You can play it from hand.

edderkoppen said:

My mistake on SNS, I just read it from Deckbox and the text there is totally wrong (the card image is right). So it does say target, but I still don't think it matters. I tried to find some proof for you, but the best I could find was from "Out of Play"

"A card that moves from an in play zone to an out of play zone is treated as though it were a new card. Any effects connected to the card will no longer affect it."

The clear counter argument is that Church just affects units in any zone. I don't think this is the case. I think cards only affect the in-play zone unless explicitly stated, but I couldn't find a passage to quote to support that. However, if it didn't work that way then a lot of really weird things could potentially happen.

With regard to the Raiders, you cannot return it to your hand. If you flip over the Hex it becomes a development but doesn't leave play. If you then return it to your hand via Long Winter, it actually goes to its owners hand due to this rule:

Control and Ownership
Players “own” cards that they included in the deck
they are playing. Players “control” cards that they
own, unless another player steals control of the card
through a game effect. Any time a card leaves play,
it reverts to its owner’s hand, deck, discard pile (as
directed by the effect forcing the card out of play).

its actually also listed under Out of Play as well:

Out of play is the deck, hand, and discard pile zones. If a card would go to an out of play zone, it goes to its owner’s out of play zone. A card that moves from an in play zone to an out of play zone is treated as though it were a new card. Any effects connected to the card will no longer affect it. The only exception to this rule is any abilities that trigger when a card moves from an in play zone to an out of play zone.

Sining's contradictory answer above was based on my own wrong answer to his very similar question (sorry). I didn't see this Control and Ownership section when I answered in the previous thread.

Yeah, just read the other thread as well. Thankfully that solves the Long Winter weirdness.

I'm quite convinced that Church shouldn't affect the units in discard pile, but I just can't find any substantial rule on it.