I'd preffer the White Scars, both because I'm a fan, they are under represented and do fit in quite a few major respects.

Chances are that any given chapter of unknown succession are Ultramarines. But I'd like to think that the Storm Wardens are a special enough case to buck that trend if need be.

As you said they might be Imperial Fists, it might be that later foundings aren't missing the organs and it's only the first founding chapters (who basically have identical geneseed) and ones succeeding from it soon after that delveloped the problem later, or maybe it's one of the successful experiments to get rid of the flaws, perhaps even mixing it with other chapters seed. A White Scars / Imperial Fist mix perhaps?

It's only when rumors abound about them being derived from Traitor geneseed that it smacks a little closely of Blood Ravens for me (which might be unfounded in either case).

I've got no problem with them not knowing about their progenitor chapter, beyond the first founding this only really amounts to a label on a crate of geneseed. But I'd have more respect for a team of writers if they did buck this trend.

Recent trends in Marine background (ie since the Badab war books) include the introduction of compelling chapters which carry a Legion's geneseed, but which are completely different culturally to their progenitors, and chapters whose geneseed is unknown but widely suspected to be from a particular Legion. The Mantis Warriors are an example of the former, the Star Phantoms an example of the latter.

I mention this in the contexct of the Storm Wardens only because I suspect they fall into the former rather than the latter category. I rather like the White Scars idea too, as the Storm Wardens symbol is reminiscent of the lightning symbol they use.

I would also say White Scars or Ultramarines, but with a slight twist.

The Badab War books described certain chapters have having the geneseed not just of a specific bloodline, but of a specific chapter within that bloodline. One example being the Tiger Claws chapter. A chapter that was based off of Aurora Chapter would still be of Ultramarine descent, but might share their parent chapter's affiliation with heavy tank warfare. Perhaps the Storm Wardens were an off-shoot of a successor chapter. Genetically this wouldn't make them any different from their first founding chapter, but could have a huge impact on them culturally and tactically.

Or described another way, not all Raven Guard successors have to be stealthy, not all Ultramarine successors follow the codex.

I was really only referring to the Blood Ravens, Storm Wardens and to a lesser degree the Red Scorpions when I mentioned a trend. The Badab war material seems to be very well rounded and describes chapters from all corners of the fluff, new chapters, old chapters, re-designed chapters etc...

Face Eater said:

I agree entirely, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise! The Badab War books are the best 40k material ever produced by Forge World, and that's saying something because their standards are very high. I'd vote for the writer, Alan Bligh , to become the new Grand Pubah in charge of all GW 40k development, if we were voting.

I'd go with either Imperial Fists or Ultramarines personally. I cannot see the Imperium using traitor genestock to make a new chapter. They just wouldn't risk it that that gene stock could be tainted or easily corrupted.

( Oh no, not this again...)

The traitor legions' geneseed is out of the question in any case. The stigma around it is too great, especially for the superstitiousness of the 41st millennium's Imperium of man.

The only possible occasions Terra and Mars could have used traitor geneseed are the 13th "dark" founding and the 21st "cursed" founding. In all other cases I would set your bets on loyalists' geneseed.

And technically, if the rumours are true, the Blood Ravens chapter is a remnant of a traitor legion. So they do not have roots in a later founding and are not an example that could have been possibly used in a later founding by the Mechanicum.

My personal bet is on the White Scars too. Although it could be Ultramarines, successors do have the tendency to adopt other chapter cultures than their predecessor. It could also be an Imperial Fists successor, but the geneseed mutations have the tendency to stay the same or get worse, not alter/mutate completely to other ones.

Without wanting to spoil anything (look away now) there is a fairly blatant piece of evidence in the GM kit that points towards the Storm Wardens being from a traitor legion. When all of the marines are getting visions of their primarch the Storm Warden gets one of a writhing multi-limbed Daemon. I always assumed it was Fulgrim and that they were from his stock but it isn't specific and they do seem more in keeping with Angron.

Shaun said:

Oh, that I did not remember. I will have to read the GM kit thing again then.

Why is it that both FFG and Relic do want their self-created chapters to be of traitor origin? I do not like it all too much, it is an all too easy plot device.

Shaun said:

While I don't know the truth (there are likely only a handful of people in the world who know whose geneseed the Storm Wardens use and I'm not one of them), this particular passage exists as much to sow doubt in the mind of a Storm Warden's character ("you don't know who you're descended from... it might be one of the Traitors") as anything else, so I wouldn't personally use it as evidence.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Glad that I can keep on ignoring that piece of fluff then...

I'm not keen on the 'wooo, we're mysterious, with a history that lays in shadows' kind of background, either.

Coming from the traitor legions would need some seriously blaggy back-story to back it up. Something pretty major. And it would probably still seem pretty lame and hollow.

Coming from either of the two redacted Chapters makes no sense. They were both gone by the Heresy; mangled by the Wolves, with survivors incorporated into the Ultramarines. They simply aren't on the cards as possible ancestors.

I much prefer the idea that they are simply from a known, loyal primarch, but that their records have been lost in time.

Watch-Captain Albus said:

Kind of. Age of Darkness features a short story where some 1KS who weren't on Prosperro return there to find it trashed and are very much 'WTF?!'. They were of the sub-Legion cult that bore the raven symbol (Corvid cult?). Things are pointing to the Blood Ravens being a continuance of those mystified late-comers at present, rather than any off shoot of marines who raised arms against the Wolves in the burning of Prosperro.