jgt7771 said:

Not to mention a Relationship card (maybe Socially connected?) that allows you to change allies quite with ease. I'm on JGT on this issue. I mean, I've understood perfectly what you mean, Avi, but... yeah, I think it's a kind of fair play issue. Don't know. It's like the money laundry with bank loans. Every game has this sort of loopholes, but it should be up to the players' conscience not to exploit them. After all, it is a strategic game, but with lots of atmosphere and a well-defined story line, and I don't like very much the idea of imagining these characters lost in Arkham, hunted by evil forces and an impending doom, saying "hey, let's kill William here, so we can resurrect him at Ma's and remove a doomer".

Anyway, what the hell is the utility of "Messa da requiem per Shuggay"? Everytime I draw that item I wonder why it has been created...

jgt7771 said:

The proper response is "The horror. The horror." But I'll accept your answer as well ;'D Charlie's remembered. Tibs brought him up. Still. Charlie's not as consistent in allowing this exploit. (Of course, with Charlie in the game it's even *more* brutal). And it's all about consistency :')

This is a Lovecraftian game, I find the idea of deliberately sacrificing one's allies for benefit quite thematically appropriate ;') it reminds me a bit of that scene in The Prestige... But I'll say no more in case you haven't seen it.

Julia said:

Oh... That actually helped me win a game against Yibb Tsill once... It's also potentially useful against Hastur, or any time you're ready to fight an Ancient One after gearing up and getting blessed (you don't want to wait because your blessings will have more time to wear off).

As for the game mechanics... Heh... I probably wouldn't use it... Often ;') (and yes, it'll be banned in the Fan Creation league— unofficially, along with lighthouse squatting with dragon's eye). Anyway, I thought it's a neat little exploit for this card that everyone thought so worthless for so long. Granted... This is accidental and abominable worth, but it's still worth.

You know Jgt, sometimes the game likes to play with me ;') but sometimes I like to play back

I can't count the number of times The Stars are Right has come up and we need to go purchase an ally to sacrifice. One hundred percent of the time we select an ally that can give us something in the brief time we are destined to have them. Bain and Rice are great of course, as are Corrina Jones, Ruby Standish, Sarah Danforth, Erica Carlyle, Asenath Waite, or even Ryan Dean (and there are certainly more). We pick them up for what they give us before we take them Downtown to sacrifice them.

As far as I know we've never pushed this by buying the same ally again after the sacrifice, but I'm not sure if the circumstances have ever seen it necessary. I know we've drawn the same ally that was sacrificed, perhaps randomly. (It was very funny at the time.)

Where do you draw the line? Should all such sacrifices return an ally to the box? It makes some sense. No good killing Duke to stop the horrible ritual if he comes running out of the Woods a turn later.

Can I be really really annoying and say..... its just a game, the deep politics involved around in whats good play, bad play, and so on, is kinda academic when you begin to look at it in that light, isn`t it?

Are there really people out there who take the game THAT seriously - wow?

Mab :-)

Saving the world vs sacrificing a dog, I'll take a side-order of the former thank you. Little animal cruelty goes a long way in Arkham at times .

Mabinogian said:

Can I be really really annoying and say..... its just a game, the deep politics involved around in whats good play, bad play, and so on, is kinda academic when you begin to look at it in that light, isn`t it?

Are there really people out there who take the game THAT seriously - wow?

Who let you in here? Security!

Oh, I don't think I'm as bad as all that. I'm one of the first guys to say "play the game how you like". I may disagree with some of Avi's philosophy, but I'd never try to change it. Hell, I disagree with almost everything Dam says (except 3, maybe 4 things), but there's no animosity there.

...well, except maybe that one time he shot me in the back of the head. But that was more huffy surprise than anything.

It's just that, being a grognard with a few years of AH experience, by definition, requires a certain pinch of "Wow, I am so right" under the surface. And when a bunch of people with different convictions get together...let's just call it "creative sparks".

I've always been for theme over mechanics. I want to "experience" Arkham Horror much more than I want to "beat" it. It is the best cooperative game I have ever played, and I have unearthed a small collection of humans that agree: whether we all lose or all win, no one leaves "better" than anyone else. Beyond the Lovecraft or Chaosium influence and imagination, being able to play a game everyone loves without pitting them against each other has been GLORIOUS.

Which is why I hate Join the Winning Team. Ha ha, yes it's very cute and all that, but it's like that one accidentally folded page in a million dollar comic. It ruins the very spirit of cooperation that AH has nailed so well, and it stinks. (And now Avi has discovered that it's even more rancid.) EVERY TIME someone in my games drew that **** card, I could WATCH their faces fall. That's not cool, and that's not fun or funny. Hence, justified exile. (You want to betray someone, go play Battlestar Galactica. It EXCELS at that.)

So I suppose I do take that thing a bit seriously. And I will likely bark about it. But I'm not gonna go to pieces if nobody listens.

Psst! Avi! The Lurker's not a Guardian! >hoots like Daffy Duck and runs away<

Well, we've been playing that sacrifice means "return to the box " for all missions, so Joining the Winnig Team is not really broken. The problem , as jgt says, is that AH is a co-op game and it doesn't work with covert tactics; this card destroys the "we're all in the same boat" feeling. We still include it in the deck , but rarely use it.

Thats a cool answer hehe... yep, I totally see where you`re coming from :-)

Mab

Avi_dreader said:

That's brilliant, Avi. It never came to my mind. Probably because I always try to seal the last dam(n) gate before surrending to the inevitable final battle against the AO. But yep. If you want to beat the game, sometimes it's better wake up the bad guy rather than wasting blessings and resources trying to do what you don't have the time to do.

I`ve been trying to message you jgt7771 (in reply to your MSN mail) but when I tried to reply to the message in MSN, I got a nice message back saying that I had reached the FFG moderator staff or something instead hehe.

I feel like a right thickie, because I simply CAN NOT seem to find the right place in the forums to send you private mail lol.

All the best, and maybe you can help me out here

Cheers,

mab

To send a private message, you have to be friends. Then you go to your profile, and check your list of friends. Click the mail icon next to that friend's name.

Ooh cheers Tibs... yep, already friends :-)

Thanks, Tibs! Cheers, Mabinogian!

(These forums could stand to be a wee bit more intuitive...)

No problem. It's quite a hassle to communicate this way, so I often just send my email address to people when I send them a PM.

Mabinogian said:

Stop being so annoying or we will sacrifice you the next time The Stars are Right is drawn (don't worry, you can still be recruited again from Ma's Boarding House). Read Jonathan Strange & Mr Norell to gain some appreciation for pointless academicism (which isn't even a real word, but what are you going to do, call me on it?) Since you're new here, I should probably warn you that whether you say it is or isn't a real word I will disagree with you and accuse you of it. Absurd speech traps are fun.

jgt7771 said:

WHAT! It's hilarious. I don't know what you're talking about. I live for the game breaking people's spirits. I'd disagree with you on the definition of The Lurker, but I think your Daffy Duck impression suggests that deep down in your psycheeeee, you know I am correct. Either that or you've finally cracked from too much Arkham exposure :') a great way to go.

{{{{Stop being so annoying or we will sacrifice you the next time The Stars are Right is drawn (don't worry, you can still be recruited again from Ma's Boarding House). Read Jonathan Strange & Mr Norell to gain some appreciation for pointless academicism (which isn't even a real word, but what are you going to do, call me on it?) Since you're new here, I should probably warn you that whether you say it is or isn't a real word I will disagree with you and accuse you of it. Absurd speech traps are fun.}}}}

I have been warned ^^ and I shall endeavour therefore to become a fully fledged investigator in my own right (besides, Ma`s Boarding House has comfy beds and nice soft chairs for when my head aches too much to face another insanity defeat).

hehe

Cheers

Mab