Adam France said:

Can I recommend reading Brothers of the Snake by Dan Abnett. He used Orks the way they SHOULD be used. Ther ewas no humour, just a horde of terrifying aliens that were capable of threatening the bulk of a Space Marine chapter. Terrifying, brutal and, above all, ALIEN creatures that caznnot be reasoned with or paid off. Plus, it's a damned good read!

Adam France said:

Adam France said:

Not very well realised with all the conflicting data, fluff and information. The inconsistant abilities, power levels, numbers and presence. The hOrus Heresy and the rest of those events from 10,000 years before can happen all the same without a necessity of said space marines. They just become an elite warrior unit that no longer exists, a myth, a fantasy created by the ecclesiarchy to give humanity hope.

i.e. a Religion created and endorsed by the state. And since fare fewer space marines exist then orks, it makes it even easier to remove their presence or need from the setting. After all, most wars against orks are won by the Imperial Guard and not the Space Marines.

professor_kylan said:

A fact that cannopt be mimicked in Deathwatch.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

But they are portrayed as a race of unthinking hooligans. They're not war addicted, all they do is charge around killing things - that's not war addicted, that's just mindless. Yes you can try to change or minimise that fact, but it is a fact. More than that though, they're played for laughs right down the line. The fact they kill people in the process doesn't really change that imo.

professor_kylan said:

Oh god - I hate that book. It's the worst Abnett I've read. Yes, to be fair, he does his best with the orks in the book, but even he (all bless his name) cannot truly save them. (I also disliked how weak the Dark Eldar were made to seem in the book, but that's a different discussion.)

The thing is, going Abnett's route is better, for sure, but orks then just start to morph into another tyranid-like xeno race; a charging horde of slathering, apparently mindless, alien beasts that you can't reason or negotiate with. We already have tyranids, it's hard to see why we'd need another similar xeno breed.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Well, it's a different argument. I guess it would be possible to remove sms from the setting without losing the essential feel, but personally I really like SMs, so it's not something I'd ever want to do. It would definitely be more problematic than removing orks though - I avoid the infrequent ork-centric novels, it'd be a good deal harder avoiding novels that feature SMs.

Adam France said:

Nah, aside from reading Horus Heresy novels, which are space marine centric, but more History of a future earth centric Ive only read one Space Marine centered novel (Night Bringer) which was the first 40K I ever read and even it relied heavily on IG, Adeptus Arbites, Inquisitors and Dark Eldar and les so on the Ultramarines and I read a Short Story in Bringers of Death that had space marines in it (two actually, one as a plot point, one as the protagonists, both of which, BTW, was against orks).

Where orks were not a bunch of hooligans..... Redemption Corps, Rebel Winter, Fifteen Hours, Bringers of Death, Gunheads.

The TT is kind of slapstickish, but even that is getting less and less these days.

Oddly enough, I dont mind Chaos Space Marines nearly as much LOL.

Back to the original topic though.......

If you don't like Orcs, you can exchange them for your own favorite Xenos type. Including a homebrew variety. Stats of monsters only make a small part of an adventure. You can always ditch those. You could try out the first module, see if you can alter it to your preference and go with it.

The RT adventures so far offer a lot of different roads and freeway to the group that plays them. Into the Lure for example, I have read quite a few alternate roads on this forum. Including some that I think, I wish I had thought of that! I am sure that this new adventure triplet offers the same flexibility.

Orks work best when you just ignore the way they are treated in the TT. Of course, they are that "SOOOOO LOL" army that seems designed to target the 11 years old audience but if you play them the way FFG describes them, there isn't much reason to laugh. At least, they aren't any more ludicrous than Dark Eldars (gothic/BDSM-flavored elves) or Necrons (the Terminator just walked through an Egyptian exhibit).

Kyorou said:

Ill agree with the Necrons, and overall the description of Dark Eldar is accurate, but I do like them in my games.

Sister Callidia said:

True.

You could replace them with Feral World Mutant Khorne Cultists with heavy armour, in the end, the stats wouldnt even have to change.

Why am I think of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles all the sudden.

Feral Mutant Khornite Cultists, Feral Mutant Khornite Cultists, Cultists in a Half Shell!

Adam France said:

I think You have this one wrong... KIDs love the Puppys! It usually the old timer geek Kobol coders who like Orks!

crisaron said:

Not a cobol coder, but Orks were my first army and still my main army. And I'm 32... not a little kiddie. Crisaron is right though, most ork players I've run across are older. Like my age or older. You want younger players, you look for space wolf and blood angel players. Not all, but a good chunk are kiddies.

-Thulis

Peacekeeper_b said:

Peacekeeper_b, as much has I have enjoyed reading your opinions in the past I really, really think that that you need to go and lie down somewhere until these thoughts go far, far away

Of course if you want replace the Orks just use the Kafers from 2300AD; the thought of a galaxy wide infestation of those is not a happy one

DW

Traveller61 said:

I actually just think work is finally getting to me.