Hello,

I am new to the game and to the forums. I tried doing various searches trying to find the answers to these questions and also tried walking through the framework in the FAQ but I am still unclear about a few things..

(1) My opponent declares a challenge, I don't declare any defenders and then play a Burning on the Sands during the Determine Winner of Challenge portion of the framework.

(A) Would I be able to trigger and Vengeful characters I control?

(B) Or would I be able to put a Venomous Blades back into the shadows?

© Can I trigger Areo Hotah (PotS) ability if I lost by 4 or more strength?

It looks like these abilities would trigger later in the framework, and I didn't technically lose a challenge either, so I wasn't sure on that.

(2) At the start of the challenge phase, I bring a Venomous Blade out of shadows and attach it to a character I control; killing one of my opponent's characters. My opponent declares (and wins) a military challenge and I have to satisfy the claim. If I want to kill the character with the Venomous Blades attached is there an opportunity to put the Venomous Blades back in the shadows?

Thanks in advance!

Welcome!

chadwick537 said:

No one wins, so you can't trigger "after you lose" (or vengeful) effect. If there is no winner, then there is no loser, right?

chadwick537 said:

No. After that character dies, his attachments also become moribund and you can't put VB into Shadows since it's forbidden by the rules (Rules Exception FAQ page 15).

Since there is already a newbie Martell question i ll post mine here:

Can someone please clarify to me "Doran Martell" card? How functions exactly? I have already read the faq but got us a bit confused.

Thank you very much!

Yusaku said:

If Doran is in play, you attack another player and you lose the challenge, you have to settle claim effects as if the winning defender had attacked you and won (this is just claim effects, not Responses).

Let's say Doran is in play and I do a military challenge against you. You defend with enough STR to win the challenge. Normally, that would end it, but because of Doran, I have to kill characters as if you had attacked me and won.

What about the errata? is that to make the effect of power challenges clearer? or to say that Doran's power ONLY works on power challenges?

Mighty Jim said:

Yes. It's clarification, because of rulebook Power Challenge definition:

The defending opponent takes
a number of power counters from his House
card equal to the claim value on the attacker’s
revealed plot card, and places them on the attacker’s
House card.

Doran's ability is intended to create claim effect also when you attacked and lost.

(Red Vengeance works according to rulebook.)

Mighty Jim said:

So the entry in the FAQ is specifically to clarify his use during power challenges, not to limit his use to power challenges only. I'm not entirely sure how someone could interpret "When an attacker is fulfilling the claim of a lost [power] challenge because of Doran Martell's effect..." as "An attacker will only fulfill the claim of a lost [power] challenge because of Doran's effect."