I played a game today with a friend, and one of the hero skills drawn was Furr the Spirit wolf. When attacking one of the shades with the wolf i said he couldnt do it. he argued that if stood on the same space as the shade, he was "adjacent" to the monster anymore.

My question is, can Furr attack anything with the ghost ability?

Furr cannot be used to attack anything with the Ghost ability, since Melee attacks can only be declared against adjacent spaces. If you stuffed Furr into a "Dobie-o-matic" though you could call it a Ranged attack (apologies to Gary Larson)

Actually Furr the Spirit Wolf's attack is considered "Magical". It uses the white die and has a range of 1 to 3 so it actually can hurt ghost creatures because it is not considered a Melee attack. Good question though about Ghost. Can you zap a Ghosted target at point blank with Ranged or Magical attack or effect it with a blast attack. Does Blast/Breath attack ignore Ghost/Shadowcloak ablities? Plus if a Ghosted creature moves on a tree space, do they get shadowcloak as well and thus become efficently invincible?

Darkfire14 said:

Do you mean Magical attack as in he can hit enemies from range? I have only ever seen Furr's attack used as a Melee attack.

Furr the Spirt Wolf's attack IS a magic attack. It specifically says the WHITE DIE and it does not say his attack is Melee. The White Die is a Magical Attack Die NOT a Melee Attack Die hence it can be used to attack things at range. The Red Die is a Melee Attack die and Furr dosen't use it. So yes with Furr the Spirit wolf you could hit a target more than 1 square away. The range sucks mind you, at best you can hit something 3 squares away with a 3 range and 1 W roll (unless you have command), so to do better damage you do it at point blank.

Darkfire14 said:

Furr's attack is NOT a Magic attack, it is a Melee attack.

From the FAQ:

Furr the Spirit Wolf
"Furr the Spirit Wolf’s attack is a melee attack even though it rolls the white die. In addition, Furr can only attack when his owner has a clear line of sight to Furr and is within 5 spaces of him."

Just because its a White die does not necessarily mean that it is a Magic attack. Golem's are the same way. They are a Melee monster but roll the White die instead because they are magical, so the die type does not always correlate to the attack type.

Ah I see, so it was FAQ'ed. I still would allow it to ignore ghost for the simple reason is that it is a magical attack despite only being used in melee range, because as a magical attack it should be able to hit Ghosted foes and it lowers Furr's effectiveness if he can't hurt something, considering he's already pretty weak already (although good at picking off weakened creatures). You still haven't answered though if Ranged or Magical attacks fired at point blank ignore ghost or not. In other words say you use a magical attack with the character that gives a Pierce 2 at point blank. Or if a creature with Ghost in a Tree Space gets both Ghost and Shadowcloak making them impossible to hit.

To the best of my knowledge, Ranged and Magic attacks done point blank still count as Ranged or Magic so they should not ignore Ghost. As for a creature with Ghost being in a tree, I would think they would get Shadowcloak. In that case, you better pray someone has Telekinesis.

Can Spiritwalker hit a Shadowcloak if the hero from which he wants the attack to occur is adjacent to the enemy?

Yes, because the attack originates from the target Hero that the Hero with Spiritwalker is...walking his spirit to or whatever happens. Answer is yes, hence why Andira Runehand with Spiritwalker is awesome.

Darkfire14 said:

They would ignore ghost.

Ghost: Figures with Ghost cannot be attacked by adjacent figures using a melee attack

So they CAN be hit by adjacent figures using a magic or ranged attack, or by magic or ranged attacks from a distance, or by melee attacks from a distance (with reach).

Shadowcloak: A figure with Shadowcloak is not affected by attacks made by non-adjacent figures.

So if one has both Ghost and Shadowcloak, then they cannot be hit by adjacent figures with melee, or by non-adjacent figures. This means the CAN be hit by adjacent figures with magic or ranged weapons. That's not much that can hit them, but at least they're not invincible.

Furr: I would have to say Furr, if attacking from within the same space as an enemy, is by all means "adjacent". It doesnt mean a space has to be adjacent to the space that the enemy is in (ie one of the 8 surrounding spaces) just that the unit has to be adjacent. For practical application of the word adjacent in this case, it would make no sense to say a unit in one of the 8 spaces surrounding are adjacent, but a unit in the 9th space that is even closer to the enemy is not. That's just a silly over-interpretation of what's written in the book, looking for a loophole. As an OL, I would never rule that the space the wolf is in is not adjacent to my unit. Furr is DEFINITELY a melee attack tho, this is clarified in the FAQ. The color of the die is irrelevant.

Big Remy said:

I dont know if I agree w you here...

Shadowcloak: A figure with Shadowcloak is not affected by attacks made by non-adjacent figures

The attack (by Andira with Spiritwalker in this case) is made by a non-adjacent figure, no matter how you interpret it. Andira is not adjacent to the enemy. Then what Spiritwalker does is allow the attack to originate from a different space. It does not mean she is adjacent, just that her attack is originating from somewhere else. The attack is still made by a non-adjacent figure, almost verbatim prevented by shadowcloak.

The unit she is attacking through is not making the attack, Andira is... and she's non-adjacent.

Yeah, I think you are right. Not sure what I was thinking of. I think for some reason my brain translated "non-adjacent" into "non-Melee" attack.

You guys still really havent answered my question. What if Furr is in the same space as the ghost monster, is it still considered to be adjacent to it if its in the same space?

Jonny WS said:

I would have to say yes.

1. Spiritwalker & Shadowcloak

-When using spiritwalker the attack originates from the figure chosen. For all intents and purposes the attacker is in the square of the hero he is attacking from. A similar situation is governed in the FAQ with Command & Spiritwalker. The FAQ says the attacker will receive the command bonus only if the square from which the attack is originating is within three spaces of the figure with Command. It would similarly apply to Spiritwalker & Shadowcloak. I believe the wording of the spiritwalker card is the attack originates from the chosen figure.

2. Furr & Ghost

-I believe the interpretation that Furr is adjacent to a figure if he is the same square as that figure. Meaning Furr could not hit a creature with Ghost.

Melee attacks can only be made against adjacent squares.

C.H.A.D. said:

...unless Reach is in use.

Furr cannot attack non-adjacent squares just because there is a range component to the dice he uses. It is still a melee attack, which must be against an adjacent square.

Melee attacks with range components ignore the range components.

Descent Base rules Pg 11

Melee Attacks: Melee attacks can only be declared against adjacent spaces. ... Range results are ignored during melee attacks.

Reach allows a melee attack to target squares one space further away than normal (for each rank of Reach).

RtL pg 30 (using RtL because it is updated from base rules (Pg 23) due to the potential of stacking Reach from a weapon with either Feats or Lord Hawthorne or all three! ) Note that since ToI is independent of other expansions it uses the original definition of Reach - both Reach weapons and Lord Hawthorne come from other expansions so are not considered for stacking purposes in ToI.

The Reach ability allows a figure to make melee attacks targeting spaces one space further away from it than normal for each rank of Reach it has.

Summary (almost an aside): Furr cannot hurt ghosts.