Since I've started playing WFRP3 I've been a bit bothered by the complete randomness of career selection. It's not awfull, since I don't HAVE to play one specific kind of character, but it can leave you with no choices you actually want and it also leads to some pretty strange groups. Which can be fun, but can also verge on immersion breaking unless you come up with a good enough explenation. So I like the randomness of the process, but I feel it can be a bit too random, so I started thinking of alternative ways to do this that allowed the player to point the randomness in the general direction of the kind of career he wants to play.

So, I went ahead and made this list of the basic careers from the core set and the adventurers toolkit. I left out dwarf-only and elf-only careers as I generally don't allow people to play anything but human in my group and those careers sort of wind up in a group by themselves anyway.

Academic: Initiate, Apprentice Wizard, Dilettante, Scribe,

Arcane: Apprentice Wizard,

Bureucrat: Messenger, Bailiff, Watchman, Agent, Burgher,

Combat: Soldier, Pit Fighter, Watchman, Mercenary, Thug,
Bounty Hunter

Devoted: Zealot,

Fanatic: Zealot,

Menial: Ratcatcher, Commoner, Hunter, Scout, Pit Fighter,
Boatman, Mercenary, Thug, Dockhand,

Military: Soldier,

Priest: Initiate,

Religion: Zealot, Initiate,

Rogue: Smuggler, Agitator, Scout, Thief, Gambler,
Mercenary, Thug,

Rural: Ratcatcher, Commoner, Hunter, Scout, Boatman,
Dockhand, Bounty Hunter, Coachman,

Social: Agitator, Commoner, Messenger, Dilettante, Thief,
Gambler, Bailiff, Scribe, Agent, Burgher, Barber Surgeon

Specialist: Smuggler, Military, Hunter, Dilettante, Pit Fighter,
Scribe, Coachman, Barber Surgeon

Urban: Smuggler, Ratcatcher, Agitator, Messenger, Thief,
Gambler, Bailiff, Watchman, Agent, Burgher, Boatman,
Dockhand, Bounty Hunter, Coachman, Barber Surgeon

Wizard: Apprentice Wizard

Now, some of these career traits only have one career. More will probably be added in later expansions for the game, but for now I'll take those out. Leaving me with these traits:

Academic, Bureucrat, Combat, Menial, Religion, Rogue, Social, Specialist and Urban

I also made a second list that can serve in much the same way, but instead of traits, it is based on primary characteristics. The list is somewhat similar to the trait list, but focuses on what the careers strength is instead of the careers place in society.

Strength Boatman, Dockhand, Mercenary, Pit Fighter, Thug

Toughness Bailiff, Coachman, Commoner, Dockhand, Hunter, Pit Fighter, Ratcatcher, Smuggler, Soldier, Watchman, Zealot

Agility Boatman, Bounty Hunter, Coachman, Gambler, Hunter, Messenger, Ratcatcher, Scout, Thief, Thug

Intelligence Agent, Agitator, Apprentice Wizard, Barber Surgeon, Bounty Hunter, Burgher, Dilettante, Scout, Scribe

Willpower Apprentice Wizard, Commoner, Initiate, Mercenary, Scribe, Soldier, Zealot

Fellowship Agent, Agitator, Bailiff, Barber Surgeon, Burgher, Dilettante, Gambler, Initiate, Messenger, Smuggler, Thief, WatchmanWhen the players sit down to make their characters, you can use these definitions in several different ways:

You can let everyone choose one trait or one characteristic they want their character to have. Then have the player draw three random careers from that list. Or if that makes it a bit too narrow, you can make it a bit more random by having them choose two traits or characteristics. This way there'll be quite a lot of randomness, but the careers they have to choose between will all be conceptually close to something the player is interested in playing. And if he's a bit lucky, he'll draw one or more careers that have both traits/characteristics.

Or you can have the players draw a random trait/characteristic each, and then let them select between the careers with that trait/characteristic.

Or have them draw a number of random traits/characteristics, choose one, and then draw one or more random careers from that list.

Or you can have the group agree on one or more traits/themes for their group and have everyone either draw or choose from those traits. The obvious "downside" to this is that you will probably wind up with somewhat similar characters. For example, if they all take Social careers, 9 of 11 careers with that trait have Fellowship as one of their main characteristics. There is quite a lot of chance of overlap in skills and abilities. But on the other side, you can wind up with some pretty thematic groups keyed towards a certain type of adventures.

It is also possible to cross-reference these lists, choosing one trait and one characteristic and either choose from all careers with either characteristic or trait. Or only choosing from careers with both the trait and the characteristic. Allthough that takes a bit much work and will at the current time probably have combinations with only one or even zero careers with that combination.

So, any comments or anyone want to share other ways they've changed the "random" character generation rules of the game?

Not quite sure what to say here. It looks like you've put some thought into it, which is nice, but seems unnecessary. If you want people to have more say in what kind of careers they play, why not simply allow players to choose their characters' careers and be done with it?

Random methods are fine when people can't decide what they want, but typically the rpers I know would rather make their own decisions. The randomization element seems a little too board gamey to me.

I just let the players pick what they want to play from the basic careers. I generally want them to think about the group composition together and discuss why their characters hang out together and that's easier if they can take careers that they think fit together. And it also makes sure that the players get to play "what they want to play", because if they get dissatisfied with their career they won't enjoy the game as much. To me having fun and enjoying the character is the important things.

But I guess it's possible to create a random system for character selection within groups of characters. Still, if I want to play an Apprentice Wizard and go ahead and pick the "Academic group" and happend to draw Dilettante I'd be disapointed. And if you have groups with only one career in it it's not random any more. So I really don't know. Randomness can be fun, but I generally favour giving the players the ability to choose from the careers.

I think the rulebook says that you could let the players choose any career they want as a starting career (not interm/adv careers). So we went for that and it works well.

True, just choosing a career works fine. And I've even got another thread on this forum about making thematic groups where everyone chooses a career that fits together. What I'm basically trying to do is offer a middle way between "completely random" and "not random at all", mostly just so GMs consider that there are alternatives to just dropping the random draw completely.

I like the randomness of choosing careers, because it can make you choose careers you might not have considered, sparking your imagination in unforseen directions. But on the other hand, inspiration might not strike and you might not want to play any of the ones you got. For example, last time I had to make a new character I drew Bailiff, Ratcatcher and Smuggler. Where I didn't have any interest in playing a Bailiff or a Ratcatcher, and couldn't come up with a way to write them into the story of the group. So I was happy I got the Smuggler, which filled the gap in the group from when my last character died and was easy to fit into the story, but it didn't feel like a choice so much as getting one "right" character and two "wrong" ones.

This method is also handy to use when dealing with new players. Just asking them what they want to play might lead to you having to explain just about every career in the game (unless they answer "I want to play a Wizard" or "I want to be like Legolas!" ) Or force them make a too quick decision where they feel they just didn't have enough information when they've played a bit and then realize there was another career they much rather would have picked.

Heck, you don't even have to really have a randomness to it. The two lists easily narrows down a players choice instead of having to go through all the career sheets to pick out the ones he might want and then choose from them.

At the moment, the selection of available career isn't all that big, so these problems aren't very noticable most of the time, but as you add the careers from the magic supplement, the priest supplement and the fighter supplement, the list of careers might suddenly take a long time to go through and be a bit overwhelming for someone who doesn't know what to play.

Ralzar said:

Actually I thought this was a pretty solid idea.

I like random career generation because in other fantasy games (fro MERP to DnD) it feels like your character is a born soldier. From the moment you take them over and start playing your backstory has to involve years of training. And then this unlikely mishmash of folks meet in a tavern, it's sometimes hard, odd, and immersion breaking to figure out how their paths mesh together.

WFRP is much more of 'you're a guy and something happens'. Maybe you're a boatman on the docks, or a commoner in the fields, and you get swept up in something bigger than yourself. And you do learn, and become something different, but you're not necessarily an already trained fighting machine with magic to back you up.

But this is sometimes hard to pick. This often leads to awesome stories, but not necessarily the first choice of class come char-gen time. That's why I'm a big proponent of the random (although some players in my group disagree). And to those that dislike this system I offer this - you can ALWAYS career switch into what you want 'more' even if you haven't dedicated. You're never stuck in a career you don't want to be.

I like this system because while random in my oppinion is good, this can help you make a healthier group.

"I'll be the ****-kicker. I'll take a military career." "Ok, I'll be the face. Social base please." "I think we need some mixed, maybe a scout? I'll go with Rogue."

All of a sudden out of a big batch of careers you have a nice group brewing with still a fair bit of random. I say good job.

shinma said:

Thanks

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was aiming at. Allowing for some direction to the career choices while not getting completely rid of the random element.

You missed a spot: Military: mercenary

Anyways, your list is handy for scenario writers: when trying to include 'something for everyone,' the reference types here can be used here for ideas.

For example: a rat catcher scenario where the PC's are investigating may have a note on where each of these characters could go (watch house, 'the word on the street', the church, etc.). Not that the players wouldn't hit spots for these anyways, but that now there's a checklist

Interesting wrok.

jh

Emirikol said:

Think you better check that card again

Mercenary: Basic, Combat, Menial, Rogue

Yes. You are correct

jh