It might have been a while since I did any statistics, but to me the average for 3d10 take top 2 is 13,475 (I've actually did a quick calculation of all possible cases to verify this).

The mechanic though for a 2D10+5 Pen 5 Tearing Weapon is 3D10, drop the lowest.

Out of that 3D10, there is a 30% chance there will be one 10, the average marine at Rank 1 will have about a 40-45% chance of converting for Righteous Fury (automatically if its a Xeno) and doing an extra 1-9pts of damage. There is a 10% chance that will be another 10 on top of that which will also continue to roll over. So if you do say 13 on the dice +5= 18pts, theres a 40-45% chance of doing another 1-9 which means nearly half the time 19-27pts with a 10% chance of doing another 10 making it already Damage 28 Pen 5 Hit which will easily get into the 30's if it converts.

Even on the good Damage 27 Pen 5 hit on the nose of a Rhino with AV of 24, that will reduce its AV to 19 to soak the damage down to 8 which knocks off a third of the vehicles Structural Integrity of 25... there's still a fair few rounds left to come on full auto, being its a big tank and full auto has a bonus of +20 to hit, quite a few more rounds WILL hit it unless you completely bork the roll. The Rhino will work with NPC marines shooting at it, they might chip off a bit here and there but it will take them considerably more than PC's with the righteous fury rules.

It just seems very hard to challenge a squad of PC marines with (tough) NPC's or vehicles, they just seem to bust so much **** apart, so quickly and they're not even off training wheels and playing with big guns.

decPL said:

decPL said:

So take the 13.475 add 5 to it and you still get 18.475 which is close enough to 19 to not argue over it. Lets not forget that tactical marines with Bolter Mastery get +2 more damage. So make that a 18.475+2 average, which is 20.475 or almost, but close enough, to 21 average.

Perhaps if the game had more dice options it wouldnt be so severe, instead of adding numerous D10s to damage, it could have been 2D6+5 or even 2D8+5 damage. The best we could hope for in the current system is 1D10+1D5+5 damage, but that just gets awkward.

Perhaps if TB was treated as primitive armour?

DW Space Marine said:

In TT the bolter only has a chance if they shoot it in the back. Against side and front armor there is no chance. One righteous fury will likely do more damage than an inferno pistol against the Rhino even at short range. On full auto a bolter has a pretty good chance of getting a Righteous Fury. A Storm Bolter is even better. Imagine 8 2d10+5 tearing hits on a Rhino. Not a statistical impossibility to totally trash with one round fo full auto fire and cause an explosion. That shouldn't happen unless we get Astartes Rhinos too with extra special armor.

MKX said:

MKX said:

Except it isnt just 1D10 being added for righteous fury, its the full damage code, so another 2D10+5 damage is added. Using the above Rhino with AV 24 as an example, a space marine bolter only has to roll a 20 to inflict 1 point of damage to it, which means they need to roll 15 on 2D10, with a good chance of getting at least one 10. They only need to roll a 13 if they have bolter mastery and even less if using special ammo. It roughly gives them a 25-30% chance of damaging a rhino with every shot and on a not at all unlikely shot they could blow it up in one shot. (scores a 10 on a damage die, gets RF confirmed, adds another 2D10+5 tearing damage to the already damaged vehicle).

I am just going to houserule that you cant righteous fury against inanimate objects unless you aim at a vulnerable spot.

I remember reading that on vehicles righteous fury acts differently than regular. With an AV of 24, a space marine has to roll a 15 on his damage roll in order to inflict 1 point of damage. 24 AV - pen 5 - +5 damage = 14.

Assuming the space marine rolls a 10 + 5 he must confirm the righteous fury as normal.

The only time you can righteous fury against a vehicle is when the attack would normally deal at least 1 point of damage. This means that heavier vehicles will not be taking any damage from regular bolters.

I can't remember where I read that rule- but here is another rule detailing Righteous furies on vehicles

On page 177 of Lure of the Expanse:

"Instead of rolling an additional die for damage he rolls a 1d5 on the Vehicle Critical Chart and applies the result to the vehicle."

Essentially, a righteous fury only inflict an additional 1 point of critical damage, that will not destroy the vehicle.