i dont find anymore the errata files so at first where i can found it again pls?

other doubt are looking again at the soar skill( my player at the most, so i want to be sure before killing theyr heroes)

so: witha monster with soar, in my turn (OL) i can make an attack with it and return to have soar again in the same turn?

It'snt a little ublanced?

To attack the manual say the monster have to came down un-activating soar. even the manticor who makes ranged attack?

correct me if i'm wrong:

-Breath and explosion effects normaly against monsters with soar (so they not considering the 4extra square for the range)

-Aura have not effect since the monsters are still soaring

-Models with soar still block line of sight

-models with soar still denies movment trhough them

-how exactly grapple and pets like skye works?

About Black curse: readed back carefully i'd notice that influence all models (so even allies monsters) and it's not cumulative. it's changed? this kind of status are usualy cumulative in descent, like command or aura

at last if i killed my own dark priest with one beastman he'll be cursed, so if the heroes will kill him gain 1 addictional victory points? (no, im' not serious about it it's just a joke!)

One of my player substain ther's a big bug in the RLT. He's affermation it's about my "opening" strategy. i've immediatly purchase 3 liutenant (the 3 Farrow) and going to crasha city. menawhile in the first dungeon i've killed my Heroes enogh times to purchase another liutenant (kar-amog-...nikto!) so now i have 4 liutenant, at 1 step from tamalir. my player substain if i decided (we are at week 3) to march on tamalir i will'simply won, without chanse for the palyers to resist.

he's right? i think not because they can emprove tamalir's wall but i'm not really sure about it...

i dont find anymore the errata files so at first where i can found it again pls?

Up top: Catalog -> Board Games -> Descent -> Support

so: witha monster with soar, in my turn (OL) i can make an attack with it and return to have soar again in the same turn?

It'snt a little ublanced?

It's strong, but heroes can ready attacks and Soar is not immunity to ranged attacks, just a strong buffer.

To attack the manual say the monster have to came down un-activating soar. even the manticor who makes ranged attack?

The manitcore can stay up when he attacks, but he'll have to contend with the +4 range.

-Breath and explosion effects normaly against monsters with soar (so they not considering the 4extra square for the range)

Correct

-Aura have not effect since the monsters are still soaring

Correct

-Models with soar still block line of sight

Correct

-models with soar still denies movment trhough them

Correct

-how exactly grapple and pets like skye works?

Soaring grants immunity to grapple and Skye for the same reason it grants immunity to Aura: you're not adjacent.

About Black curse: readed back carefully i'd notice that influence all models (so even allies monsters) and it's not cumulative. it's changed? this kind of status are usualy cumulative in descent, like command or aura

Black Curse specifiaclly only affects enemies, at least in the RtL rulebook.

at last if i killed my own dark priest with one beastman he'll be cursed, so if the heroes will kill him gain 1 addictional victory points? (no, im' not serious about it it's just a joke!)

It wouldn't work anyway. Curse tokens increase a hero's conquest value. They have no effect on monsters.

One of my player substain ther's a big bug in the RLT. He's affermation it's about my "opening" strategy. i've immediatly purchase 3 liutenant (the 3 Farrow) and going to crasha city. menawhile in the first dungeon i've killed my Heroes enogh times to purchase another liutenant (kar-amog-...nikto!) so now i have 4 liutenant, at 1 step from tamalir. my player substain if i decided (we are at week 3) to march on tamalir i will'simply won, without chanse for the palyers to resist.

They will be able to chase off and/or kill the lieutenants, though it will be hard. The Demon Prince is among the strongest of the avatars due to his powerful lieutenant and his proximity to Tamalir. They made a major mistake letting you get 16+ conquest in the frst dungeon. They're paying for it now. On the plus side though, it means you haven't upgraded Eldritch monsters. That you're heading there now instead of right after the campaign goes to Silver is a benefit for them. They can rush a couple of dungeons (only going through the first level, maybe 2) to get some XP and gear, use it to train and upgrade Tamalir's walls, and then drive off the lieutenants.

If, however, you mean that you bought all 3 lieutenants during setup, that's not allowed. Per the rules and FAQ you get avatar upgrade cards only, not lieutenants.

he's right? i think not because they can emprove tamalir's wall but i'm not really sure about it...

It'll be hard, but it's possible. It depends on their heroes, the gear they pull when shopping, and how much more conquest they give you.

The timing of razing and upgrading walls works in the heroes' favor.

Week X: The overlord puts the 5th siege token on Tamalir. It doesn't matter how many lieutenants are there, it can only hold 5.
Week X: The heroes upgrade the walls to Strength 6 and try to drive away lieutenant(s).

Week X+1: The overlord puts another token on Tamalir.
Week X+1: The heroes upgrade the wall to Strength 7 and try to drive away lieutenant(s).

Week X+2: The overlord puts a 7th siege token.
Week X+2: The heroes have their last chance to chase off the lieutenants before the Overlord gets to roll sieges.

Since Tamalir upgrades are done at the end of any turn when the heroes are in Tamalir, they can shop, train, or even explore a dungeon during that week and still be able to upgrade the walls.

James McMurray said:

James said: "Since Tamalir upgrades are done at the end of any turn when the heroes are in Tamalir, they can shop, train, or even explore a dungeon during that week and still be able to upgrade the walls."

I thought Tamalir upgrades were not allowed when returning from a dungeon?!

Parathion said:

They wouldn't be allowed to do the upgrade if the heroes fled the dungeon they were in. That immediately ends their game week.

If they completed a dungeon and choose to go to Tamalir rather than continue on the world map then they would get the chance to upgrade Tamalir.

James covered most things but there are a few to add...

Jack and THE Hammer said:

There are some additional levels of complication with Soar that might bear extra explaining.
There are two, different, types of 'disablement' or 'unactivation' of soar.
First, a Monster may, during it's turn, 'land' and cease to have Soar until the start of it's next turn. This enables it to get the benefits of terrain (most commonly to get shadowcloak from trees). If a monster does this, until the start of it's next turn it is simply not soaring at all and so is affected by Aura, grapple, etc. and can freely be attacked by melee attacks or Range/Magic attacks without the +4 range penalty.
Second, a monster may 'swoop'. This happens only for the duration of an attack, so at the end of the attack the monster returns to it's 'soaring' status. If a monster swoops it can be hit be melee attacks and range/magic without the +4 range penalty (but only interrupt attacks of course, since it is the monster's activation). It is also technically affected by affects which work on 'adjacency', like grapple and aura. However most such affects will not do anything. In the case of aura it is not 'entering' a space (it was already in the space and is just closing the range). In the case of grapple it is not able to spend MP, however at the end of he attack the swoop ceases and the monster will again be soaring high, free of grapple, without having to spend any MP.

Skye is a bit odd. Soaring creatures are not adjacent to anything (not even each other) so Skye will have no affect on them when in an adjacent space (although if they swoop or land then Skye will affect them). However If they are in the same space as Skye then they will be affected.

Most of these rules and ideas are clearly covered in the FAQ (mostly pgs14-15) or by careful reading of the base rules (for Skye).

Jack and THE Hammer said:

No change. Stuff is usually only cummulative if it has Ranks or is specifically written as cummulative. Black Curse, so far at least, has neither ranks nor is written as cumulative.
Reach is a good counter-example. In Vanilla it does not have ranks and is not cummulative, but the description changes in ACs and the new description explicitly mentions having Ranks of Reach, so for ACs Reach is cummulative.

Jack and THE Hammer said:

Your error is understandable as the rules are badly written and do appear to lump Lts under Avatar upgrades on pg 24, even though they are different on pg4.
However Lts are explicitly disallowed from initial purchase, and implicitly not classed as Avatar Upgrades by the FAQ pg14

Okay, something I find unclear : so lieutenants are not considered avatar upgrades? I thought everything that cost the overlord experience points is considered an upgrade(including purchasing treachery points). We've also never spent the initial 15 XP on lieutenants,(didn't seem appropriate, since you already start with one), but what about plot cards-can those be purchased at the beginning?

From what I understand then, if the overlord has enough XP, he can purchase both a new lieutenant and another upgrade(be it a plot card, a white card avatar upgrade. or a point of treachery) during the same game week?

@ Dragon: Where is the distinction made between fleeing end ending a dungeon successfully regarding Tamalir upgrades? In both cases no visits to Tamalir´s buildings are allowed , as per the FAQ. Is it differently ruled for the upgrades?

@ Corbon: Are you saying that a figure within three spaces of two Black Curse figures still suffers a -1 range/damage penalty only?

@ Corbon: Shouldn´t a swooping Soarer be Grappled, as per the following FAQ entry? I know it doesn´t need any MP to swoop, attack and get back up, but then there is this:

Q: How does Soar interact with abilities such as Aura,
Shadowcloak, and Grapple that refer to adjacency?
A: A creature that is Soaring is adjacent to no other
creatures. A creature that swoops becomes adjacent, as
normal. If a creature swoops and becomes grappled, it
remains at “ground level” until it is no longer grappled.

@ zealot: In my understanding any stuff that the OL buys with XP is an OL upgrade and thus limited to one purchase per OL turn. But the rules are a bit fuzzy in this case, I admit.

zealot12 said:

No.

The upgrades are:
Lts - self explanatory
Plot Cards - upgrades that are specific to one of the plots.
Treachery Upgrades - self explanatory
Monster Upgrades - self explanatory
Avatar Upgrades - the rest! There are 15 generic Avatar upgrades and each OL has some unique upgrades. These include upgrades that affect the Avatar directly (eg Dark Strength), upgrades which are general (eg Focus, Big Trouble, Seige Engines) and upgrades which are specific to an Avatar type but have a general effect (eg Into My Parlour, Snipers, Mountain Giants).

All of these are also Overlord Upgrades.
An OL can only purchase one OL upgrade (ie one 'anything') in a week. He cannot purchase a Lt and purchase some other upgrade in the same week.

The initial 15XP can only be spent on Avatar Upgrades.

Pg 10/24 covers most of this except that there are several errors. One paragraph under Avatar Upgrades on pg24 is really about Overlord Upgrades and should be in the section above. This looks like something missed during pre-release revisions - possibly initial drafts of the rules have Avatar upgrades as the 'general' name for all OL upgrades.
Avatar Upgrades (should read Overlord Upgrades) can improve the Avatar itself, upgrade a specific type of monster, or bring into play a lieutenant for the overlord to command .
Pg 24 entirely ignore Plot Cards, but their pg4 description says they are purchased the same way as Avatar upgrades and pg 10 includes them as an upgrade type (of which only one per week can be purchased).
Pg 10 misses out Lt cards from the list of upgrade types but pg24 includes them as Avatar upgrades (should be OL upgrades). The FAQ clearly excludes them as Avatar Upgrades.
Q: Exactly what cards and upgrades can the overlord spend his initial 15 XP on? Can he purchase lieutenants?
A: Avatar upgrade cards only. No lieutenants.

Its is an enormous morass of incompetent editing, but AFAICT there is only one reasonable way to make sense of it and that is the above list.

Parathion said:

Yes. It simply says, if you are within range of such a figure you take the penalty. Unlike Command, it does not say this penalty is cumulative, and also unlike command (so far at least) it does not have Ranks - there are no figures with Black Curse 2 for example, and existing figures just have 'Black Curse' not 'Black Curse 1'.

Parathion said:

Quite right, I missed that part. I was simply reasoning that it costs no MP to end the 'swoop' so the 'grapple' can be broken. However we have a clear ruling otherwise. My bad, sorry.
Grappled 'swoopers' are stuck at ground level.

wow... ok i will better take note of all of this for the next time, or i will not ever remember.

so at last 1 more clarification, and 1 more question

1 So, al least, Black curse will apllied at every models or only at the ENEMY models?

2 Ker's the grey character. How he's hero's ability exactly works? My version it's little "misty".

Grey Ker is not obliged to carry out his declared action; he can change it anytime during his turn as long as he hasn't exceeded the required number of movement points,attacks for the new action.

For instance:

Grey Ker declares an advance action at the beginning of his turn.

He makes one attack against a beastman; the attack misses.

He may change his initial declared action to battle, and make an additional attack, since he hasn't moved this turn yet.

Had he first moved/spent movement points naturally(that is, not by spending fatigue) after declaring an advance action, he couldn't have changed it to battle later during the turn, since a battling hero doesn't get movement points.(other than by spending fatigue)

Another example:

Grey Ker declares a Run action. He begins his turn adjacent to a door that leads to a new area.He opens the door by spending two movement points. The new area is revealed. Grey Ker's turn resumes. He spots a monster in his line of sight. He may now change his Run action to Advance to make one attack against the monster.

Jack and THE Hammer said:

1. All enemy figures within three spaces of a figure with the Black Curse ability suffer –1 range and –1 damage to all attacks they make (melee attacks still ignore range).

2. What Zealot said. You will often find Grey Kerr spending fatigue at the start of his planned movement rather than at the end, because this keeps his options open longer - eg most of the time if someone with Mv 4 wants to move 7 spaces they spend their 4 MP from Advance first, and then use their fatigue for the last movements. Grey Kerr will often spend his fatigue first, because he might still have option to change orders...

Parathion said:

Having re-read the rules concerning leaving a dungeon via flight or choice I would have to reconsider my earlier statement. It appears that in either case the game week ends after the return to Tamalir.

However, I've also re-read the text concerning upgrading Tamalir. It says:

Upgrading Tamalir
If the heroes end a given week’s party action in Tamalir, they can use their growing notoriety to convince its rulers to improve the city.
Each possible improvement for Tamalir is represented by a Tamalir Upgrade card, each of which lists an XP cost in its upper left corner. To upgrade Tamalir, the party chooses one of the remaining (i.e., not yet purchased) Tamalir Upgrade cards. Then, each hero pays the listed cost, in full. The upgrade then takes effect, with the purchased card being placed near the Terrinoth map, and stored in one of the hero boxes between
game sessions.
The party may only purchase one Tamalir Upgrade card per game week, which takes effect only after all other elements of the party action have been completed. Purchasing a Tamalir Upgrade does not interfere with or prevent the heroes from doing other things in Tamalir that game week (e.g., visiting the Alchemist, training at the Training Ground, etc.), but the effect of the newly purchased card does not benefit them that week.

No mention of the conditions for a visit required. No conditions on it being at the end of a Move action. Merely says that if the party's action lands them in Tamalir at the end of the week they may purchase a Tamalir upgrade. As upgrades do not require a visit to any buildings IMO I can't see any reason why they could be disallowed any time the heroes return to Tamalir.

Parathion said:

A quick look at the FAQ shows me where I made I had made the assumption about fleeing and returning.

The FAQ says:

Q: Can the heroes Visit buildings, purchase Tamalir
upgrades, or fight lieutenants if the party marker is placed
in Tamalir after ending/fleeing a dungeon?

A: No.

My mistake. It appears only after making a move or train/recoup action may you purchase a Tamalir upgrade.