Good day all. Just a quick question. I was recently told that Space Wolves can have WIVES?!?! When did THIS happen? Can someone actually tell me the official Fluff reason behind this? For example, was it in an old Codex? Was it in a 15 year old novel? I have never seen this, but would love to know where I can find it.

Thanks!

*Bangs head against wall*

This whole idea is born out of several vague references made in the Space Wolf Codex and some of the earlier novels (Space Wolf series, Book 2).

1. In the Space Wolf Codex, (this is a very quick summary) a Space Wolf gets into trouble after "making a casual pass" at what he thinks is a woman.

2. In that same Codex, Lukas the Trickster is mentioned as being a "legend among the womenfolk of Fenris;" however, given the context of the statement it can be argued that it's talking pre-space marine. Yes, I know he was like 14 years old, but in the 1st Space Wolf book practically the last thing Ragnar does as a "mortal" is bonk his girlfriend, so not entirely unreasonable.

3. In the aforementioned Space Wolf series, Ragnar (title character and Space Wolf special character) is described as feeling affection for a female character in the second book.

Nowhere does it specifically say, "Yes, Space Wolves do the horizontal tango." And it certainly makes no mention of taking wives. However, these examples are always brought up in the perennial "Do space marines still do it?" arguments that pop up like prairie dogs every five-freaking-seconds.

Sorry, I mean no disrespect against you, but this topic gets brought up way too much.

Hope this helps!

That is why Ragnar is destined for greatness... he's probably the only living Space Marine to get some.

Well, Logan Grimnar probably did too back in the day.

I think the next Heresy book is called Seven Wives for Seven Primarchs.

Hahahaha!!! That's funny!

OK. I see where this is coming from now. I have read all of those items in the past as well. My friend told me that some one on THESE forums told him that SW had wives...

I tried to search, but could not find it.

Anyway, I can also see where the confusion comes from. Personally, I thought that the whole Blackmane thing was BECAUSE of the TELEPATHIC Inquisitor. Ragnar noticed that she was looking at him FIRST. Makes sense, as he is young and powerful, and the Inquisitor was in need of a guardian on her mission. Perhaps she was just unaware of her affect on the Blood Claw. Ragnar didn't think about the Inquisitor again after she left...

I think another problem is that people are not confortable with 12 and 14 year olds becoming Space Marines. Another player in our group has a hard time accepting that a 13 year old can be a deadly warrior. I put forward the fact that a child raised in a harsh warrior culture will be VERY different than our "modern western" children. Just look at all of the 13 and 14 year old soldiers in the various ethnic and religious conflicts going on in Africa now. How many of those "children" are walking around with automatic weapons and grenades slung on their belts? How many of them have raped and pillaged?

Now, I have nothing againt Africa. There are just as many "children" in other parts of the world that are envolved in other horrific conflicts. My point was, in the right circumstance, a 13 year old can be very dangerous...

I don't think Space Marines even THINK about the "horizontal tango"...when would they have the TIME? Also, with their mental conditioning and Chapter Cult indoctination, I think that they would be ABOVE "doing the nasty". For me, that is just one of the many aspects that an Astares gives up when they sacrifice their humanity to become something more. And, even if Astartes are incapable ot having sex, why would it be an issue? They are warrior monks. They serve the greatest example of humanity. They get 15 minutes of "free time" per day if their superiors think it is forth it.

Anyway, it really has no place in the Grim Dark future of 40K.

Like Wonder Woman. Not too long ago, one of her comic writers was trying to hint that Wonder Woman was a Lesbian, since she was from an Amazonian culture. Sure, it made sense, but WHY DID IT EVEN HAVE TO BE BROUGHT UP? I have no problem with Lesbians, or what ever, but some things are better left unsaid. You know?

Do Kermit and Miss Piggy "bump uglies"? Are they not an "item"?

I just don't get some people....

CaptainLoken said:

In the far future, there is only war... and a lot of frustration

Aside from the satirical aspects of 40k, (which if taken seriously for a moment would make you question some people's sanity and thats not taking into account the inconsistencies over the years), there's heaps of funny little naughty and adult-oriented bits that writers desperately try to slip in on the sly and hope the editor doesn't see it before it makes print "PG-15!!! We gotta sell the bloody books to kids **** it!"

Sort of a pity in a way they didn't do 40K as a purely adult setting dealing with some of the more mature concepts, it might have broader appeal and managed to stand on its own feet an independent setting.

I think 40K stands just fine on its own.

However, it does illustrate the odd dichotomy in Western culture. Namely, it's alright for the setting to have (graphically depicted) bloody violence, genocide, and daemons that eat souls, but HEAVEN FORBID you make any reference to sexuality. That being said, many attempts to be more "mature" in terms of content and themes backfire spectacularly. Case in point: the "darker and edgier" comics of the late 80s-early 90s.

Of course, it can be easily argued that 40k is plenty guilty of this already...

One other point about Ragnar is that while he acknowledges that he has feelings for the female Inquisitor he also makes note that the feelings were unbecoming for a wolf. It is thought that the massive psychological reconstruction space marines experience during their training that most sexual feelings are programmed out. It is also thought that some of the space marine gene seed implants also reduce sex drive in space marines.

Yeah, having your biologically-enhanced super-soldiers chasing skirts probably causes more problems than it solves.

ddunkelmeister said:

No more so that having them out on the piss at every given opportunity. No one questions that canon.

I don't believe Space Wolf marines take wives, as I've never seen any canon that suggests they do. That they do 'bed' women does seem to be suggested pretty strongly to me. (Indeed about as strongly as I'd imagine GW ever would imply it.) I don't see it as that big a deal. The wild boozy carousing is actually more unlike the stereotypical marine image to me.

Zelsior said:

Unbecoming a wolf may mean he has strong emotional feelings, romantic feelings, for her. Such an attachment might well be seen as weak and unmannish by marines who brag about who can 'bed' the most women in a given night. Also such an attachment might well be difficult to say the least for a SM who has to rush into combat on a regular basis and travel the galaxy as part of his Chapter killing stuff for his entire life.

SM are NOT all Dark Angel style religious nutjob templar type crusading knights. Many don't even believe the Emperor is or ever was a god. I think often people are inclined to lump all SMs into one specific Black Templar/Dark Angel thematic style.

Adam France said:

I have to agree here. Another thing to consider is the prolonged life expectancy of a Space Marine over that of an non-augmented human; barring premature death on the field of battle, of course.

-=Brother Praetus=-

In my universe Space Marines are fully functional (if they would neuter them there would be no reason why Space Marines wouldn't be female), I just think most chapters are more into the monastic warrior order thing than the Space Wolves. Plus there's a bunch of problems like the already mentioned different life-spans, the constant switching of battlefields (even though you theoretically could have a relationship with a chapter serf onboard one of the vessels) and then there are the differences in body and mind that can as far as the "righteous contempt" problem with too many insanity points.

Let's be honest, someone at GW has massive problems with girls. Look at female models. The army with the most females are the witch hunters. Who are into torturing and killing (preferably in a very painful way) heretics (everybody who doesn't agree with them), witches and mutants (torturing each other is fun too, nothing beats hurling yourself half-naked with an eviscerator at your enemies while a Repentia Mistress beats you with a shockwhip). Next in line are the Dark Eldar who are into torturing, maiming, enslaving and eating souls. The third army with a decent count of female models are Eldar who are pretty normal, after that you will barely find any.

It seems quite obvious to me that Space Marines are physically up to the deed. I mean, you think Slaanesh recruits hir chaos marines with what... Paintings and pretty music?

Of course, I'm pretty certain that'll also the exact reason loyalists'll be psychologically conditioned not to go using said functional equipment...

Nentuaby said:

It seems quite obvious to me that Space Marines are physically up to the deed. I mean, you think Slaanesh recruits hir chaos marines with what... Paintings and pretty music?

Yet another statement that perpetuates the foolish notion that Slaanesh-worshippers are only interested in sex...

Slaanesh is excess and experience and self-indulgence in all forms, without morals, without restrictions and without consideration of the consequences. Artistic and intellectual pursuits are as much facets of Slaanesh as "Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll", as is gluttony, as is the joy of war, or simply the experience of extreme sensations. Many Chaos Space Marines devoted to Slaanesh have actually had the pleasure centres of their brains altered so that the sights, sounds, smell and sensations of battle - up to and including serious injury to their own bodies - are extremely pleasurable.

In short: if you can derive even the smallest moment of satisfaction or pleasure from a task or experience, then that task or experience has the potential to be taken to its furthest extremes by Slaanesh and its worshippers.

There was even a little chortling daemon smiley right there to show it was a joke, just in case it didn't come across through text. Lighten up, Francis.

Nentuaby said:

Just because you're joking about it doesn't mean it isn't perpetuating the misconception...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Nentuaby said:

It seems quite obvious to me that Space Marines are physically up to the deed. I mean, you think Slaanesh recruits hir chaos marines with what... Paintings and pretty music?

Yet another statement that perpetuates the foolish notion that Slaanesh-worshippers are only interested in sex...

Slaanesh is excess and experience and self-indulgence in all forms, without morals, without restrictions and without consideration of the consequences. Artistic and intellectual pursuits are as much facets of Slaanesh as "Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll", as is gluttony, as is the joy of war, or simply the experience of extreme sensations. Many Chaos Space Marines devoted to Slaanesh have actually had the pleasure centres of their brains altered so that the sights, sounds, smell and sensations of battle - up to and including serious injury to their own bodies - are extremely pleasurable.

In short: if you can derive even the smallest moment of satisfaction or pleasure from a task or experience, then that task or experience has the potential to be taken to its furthest extremes by Slaanesh and its worshippers.

How else would the damned "Noise Marines" ever have made it to print? No1 is right here, there is a huge perception that Slaanesh is only about seduction via sexual gratification, but as a demonic force there is much more to it than that- which IMHO makes it more compelling.

As for marines and the beast with two backs, I'm personally a fan of allowing SM's a wide range of emotional states and thoughts. What is appropriate to the chaper and the individual marine? Some would deny it completely, others may find themselves caught up in 'professionalism' of being the Emperor's Angel of Death. Others may find the call irresistable. You wouldn't have a real King Aurthur tale without Lancelot's betrayal.

As for the fluff, what little I've read on it seems to *imply* that some (particularly the wolves) still 'partake' in pleasures of the flesh, but I've not read anything that says it for certain.

Why does this come up so often? Maybe it's because this is a topic that's so intertwined in our own lives...

I consider most commericals and advertisements to be machinations of Slaanesh...and marketeers be his puppets!

Suddenly a Chapter concept with a gay theme comes to mind. A basic gay-pride rainbow colour scheme. Every figure of the TT army would need stylish mods to armour and weapons. If anyone suggests its a Slaanesh army you could act all offended.

Can you imagine the nerd-rage that would generate?

Google search- "The Pretty Marines" its also worth while looking up their counterpoint chapter "The Angry Marines"

Its the internet, everything bad has already been done.

Just for the point homosexual relationship between brother in arms are real and wiedly known on earth.

At all time, and almost everywhere warriors was fighting side by side and also lovers.

Because women was not pleasure, because only a man know how to give pleasure, etc

Whatever the reason was and is, it has never put in danger the effectiveness of the troops, and historical research tend to prove that this relationship was are indeed an asset for the army.

Look the greek and roman civilisation and conquest, and in a more darker side the SS of the WW2.

Thebigjul said:

This is the number one reason for SM's not being interested / capable of sex. They are far more likely to gay it up than take wifes.

surely the reason for them only having 2 progenoids is that space marines have no balls left any more........ they got sucked back in and re-programed and re used........ this might be the reason why SM dont have any carnal urges anymore. and a reason for the heresy as horus wanted some skirt and plenty of R&R to enjoy it in after 2 centuries of the great crusade.

just a silly idea at 0252 hrs as it dosent seem like anyone else spotted it.

steve