Hey all.

I'm intrigued at the possible ways to play with the new Yog Doppel character, by taking advantage of its "become an exact copy of the card you are copying" ability // effect.

Basically, someone mentioned in another thread where we were talking about this card, that it had huge combo potential with, among other things, Alaskan Sledge Dogs.....because, and this gets pretty crazy IMHO....you can have a normal max of 8-Sledge Dogs in your deck....but with Doppel x 3 ....you can effectively have "11" Sledge Dogs...paying 1 and having the Doppels just copy an already-in-play Dog.

This means that over 20% of your deck (if you kept to the minimum-50 level) ...would be "Sledge Dogs", or their equivalent. This could result in some major speed and early game power, which Yog normally would not be known for.

Beyond that obvious combo useage, what other good Character cards are there (for all factions) that would be boosted tremendously by Doppel making duplicates of them or their effects ?

* Here are a few examples that I thought of to start us off, but I'm sure this list is by no means exclusive...and that's why I welcome others who know of cards or are thinking of some - that I have not considered yet ! *

- Seekers of Mystery - with 3 of them...and 3 Doppels, you effectively have 6 SoM - greatly increasing their chance of coming out, and bolstering your early-game ability to reduce the cost of big characters.

* Dream Play * - Turn-1, you draw 2 Seekers and a Doppel. You play all three, having the Doppel copy a Seeker. Turn-2....you Draw Yog-Sothoth, Lord of Time and Space....and something else. Resource (3 now in play)....exhaust that Domain to play ....Yog....(-3 reduction to cost due to "three Seekers").... Yog-Sothoth....on Turn-2.

Opponent cries.

- Beings of Ib - with 3 of them, you normally could only reduce Bokrug's cost so much...and you have limited access to their ability of copying an Ancient One (normally meant to be Bokrug himself) ....but with Doppel....you now have 6 of them....and guess what...they all cost ZERO ! to put out.

Now you dramatically reduce the cost of Bokrug...and increase the chances he gets out sooner...and have up to 6 Beings all copying his Icons and Skill. Yummy.

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*** Final Note // Question *** - When you go to play Doppel...on a card that, itself, has 0-cost....like Beings of Ib....I don't think you have to actually do anything....ie - resource costs / matches, right ? You basically say "I'm copying Beings" - which costs 0...so the cost for X, in the case of the Doppel, is also 0. I think. yes / no ?

Further....reading over Doppel again....I don't think you actually NEED any Yog-Sothoth resource matches to play it ? - Or do you ? Because it cost X...and normally X=0....this means that, at least in the case of the Beings of Ib above...you should not need any Yog resources to play Doppel and copy a Beings, right ?

If I am not thinking incorrectly....then you might be able to put Doppel's in any deck....since when you choose the card you are copying, the Doppel becomes an exact copy - which, in theory - would extend to Resource Type - Faction Affiliation - etc. , no ?

If so, then if you wanted to copy a basic card like "Anarchist" (Syndicate Character) ...you would pay 2 and just toss out Doppel...becoming a 2-Cost Syndicate Character copy.... do you even actually need any Yog resources to do this ? I tend to think not, from reading over the card and the unique way its mechanics appear to work.

Thoughts on this part, as well, would be most welcome and I think most of our forum members would be interested in the discussion !

Hastur
Bringer of Fire
-
Type : Character
Cost : 3
Skill : 2
Icons : TTA
Subtype : Cultist.
Game Text: Action: Exhaust all copies of Bringer of Fire to choose and destroy a character with skill 4 or lower. Use this ability only if you control more than 1 card named Bringer of Fire.
Flavor text: For some reason, he was always cold.
Illustrator: Mike Capprotti
Collector's Info: Ancient Horrors F14

...seems like a good card with Döppelgänger. After all, you're more likely to find a 2nd copy and start killing things. In the mean time, you can also copy Demon Lover or Spellbound Shoggoth for addition skill reduction, to increase the range of your bringers.

*** Final Note // Question *** - When you go to play Doppel...on a card that, itself, has 0-cost....like Beings of Ib....I don't think you have to actually do anything....ie - resource costs / matches, right ? You basically say "I'm copying Beings" - which costs 0...so the cost for X, in the case of the Doppel, is also 0. I think. yes / no ?

Should you choose to target X or 0 cost characters, you have to pay 0, which doesn't require domains to be drained, or resources to be matched.

Further....reading over Doppel again....I don't think you actually NEED any Yog-Sothoth resource matches to play it ? - Or do you ? Because it cost X...and normally X=0....this means that, at least in the case of the Beings of Ib above...you should not need any Yog resources to play Doppel and copy a Beings, right ?

If you select an X greater than 0, it means you'll have to pay with a domain with enough resources, and make a resource match.

If I am not thinking incorrectly....then you might be able to put Doppel's in any deck....since when you choose the card you are copying, the Doppel becomes an exact copy - which, in theory - would extend to Resource Type - Faction Affiliation - etc. , no ?

Actually, rules wise, you may have a point here.

DoppleSeekers is precisely why I am attempting to raise up a Yog-thulhu deck (but do not tell the locals). Can you imagine both of them in play (them being Cthulhu and Yog)? Who cares about the competitive play aspect, since this game is all about island mini-meta's of fun groups getting together the combo with the biggest smack talk potential! If it works in practice then this will be the coolest thing since Obsessive Playwright+Cursed Skull (thanks pOOn).

§§§§ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! §§§§

Please Marius, can you tell more about what you mean when you agree to the fact the Doppleganger might not need a ressource match (Yog) when playing Dopple on a Synd card ...???

Do we agree that, when you pay and play the dopple, you do two separate stuffs: Paying and playing are not the same deal !

Doppleganger texte says :

"When you play DOpple from your hand, choose a non-unique character in play. X is equal to the printed cost of the character.

dopplega becomes an exact copy of that character while that character is inplay. If that character leaves play, return DOpple to your hand"

SO the payment requirements are :

- Look at the cost (X)

- Use a domain with a Yog ressource to pay Dople (which is in your hand before and have no active text

- Drop it on the table where it immediatly becomes the exact copy of the character (and benefit forced response, response on entering play from that character.

- Done !

Remember that, in the rules

- There are distinction between in and Out of Play ... Dople comes from an Out Play zone to an In play zone ...

- In the FAQ :

(v1.0) Resource Match
Card effects that grant a resource match do not affect other costs, such
as Steadfast. Resource match effects do, however, affect Loyal cards unless
otherwise stated in game text.

SO, the costs (with steadfast or Loyal of another card won't affect the cost of the DOpple, as this card has no steadfast nor Loyal.

- THe rules :

In order for a player to play a card from his hand (or to activate
certain card effects), he must pay for it by draining a domain with
sufficient resources. (He places a token on the domain to indicate
that it has been drained.)
A domain cannot be drained to pay for a card (or card effect) unless
it has a number of attached resources equal to or greater than the
cost. Also note that when draining a domain to play a non-neutral
card, at least one of the attached resources must be of that card’s
faction (this does not apply to neutral cards). This is called making
a resource match

You're playing a dopple ganger from your hand, nothing else ...

Just remember that Marius is no more official than anyone else who has an opinion.

We all know how Doppelganger is supposed to work so why not just play it that way unless the official rules say otherwise? Rules lawyering is for CCGs, TCGs but not LCGs.

But being clear on how a card is "able to be played" is not Rules-Lawyering, merely "Seeking of Truth".

I would agree with many others here (like Jhaelen, most notably in my mind) who have commented that this game is FAR from "easy / simple / clear" - on the surface, and the amount of cards with confusing texts, confusing timing issues, or generally confusing or "not-what-you-would-expect" FAQ//Errata is quite high, compared to most other card games I've ever encountered.

Consider something "simple" like Snow Graves....a 0-Cost Shub-colored card. When someone asked this question over at BGG....it was interesting to see how many people popped in saying, "intuitively" you should need to have at least 1-Shub resource on your side of the board, in order to play a "Shub card" - but this is not true. Snow Graves can actually be put into ANY deck and played almost as if it were a Neutral card....given its 0-cost. This is NOT what I'd consider "really easy to figure out" for someone new to the game who doesn't have access to the forums or the FAQ's at the outset of their gaming.

It's just an example, but one I think illustrates that even more complex cards (Doppel) - deserve a fair amount of scrutiny and discussion to ensure that we all understand and have considered the varied uses and "correct" way to play it.

PRODIGEE said:

Well, what I mean is, that he has a point. It says "play as" and it's unclear where the cutoff point lies exactly where doppleganger becomes the copied card. All I know it's before it hits the table. So, say, Rats or Deep One Assault should trigger.

I would say that it's right after completing targeting, choices and payment is where 'playing' begins, but I can't back it up with rules text.

This more or less works for me.

PRODIGEE said: