Melisandre's text:
Renown.
Claim 1 additional power when you win dominance, and when you win an unopposed int or pow challenge.

Storm's End's text:
If you win dominance, instead of claiming 1 power for your House, you may claim 1 power each for 2 different Bara characters.

How do these two interact? Do you get 4 power total (Storm's End kicks in twice, once for each power)? Does Melisandre's text make Storm's End irrelevant, because you don't claim just 1 power for winning dominance anymore? It seems like those are the only two possible interpretations.

So what's the deal?

I just asked Bloodycelt, and he says that Storm's End replaces the dom. win, but it doesn't seem that way to me. It seems like it only occurs *after* you actually win dom., and Mel doesn't say you actually have to claim a power in order to claim her extra power. So I guess a third interpretation could be: You get 3 total power, 2 on 2 diff. chars, 1 on your house. . .?!?!

Well, you're both right and you're both wrong.

bloodycelt is correct in that Storm's End is a replacement effect (you can tell because of the word "instead"). Normally, when you win Dominance, that entitles you to claim 1 power for your House. When Storm's End is in play, winning Dominance entitles you to claim 1 power each on two different characters. So it doesn't really happen after you win Dominance; it is a constant effect that changes what you do when you win Dominance.

However, you are correct in that the replacement effect doesn't change the fact that you won Dominance. The only thing that changed is what winning Dominance means for you (2 power on characters instead of 1 on your House). Since you did win Dominance, Melisandre's ability will kick in as a passive effect. But Mel's ability is to get 1 additional power per Dominance win, not 1 for each power you claim.

So the end result when you win Dominance with both of these cards out is claiming a total of 3 power: 2 from Storm's End (on two different Baratheon characters) and 1 from Mel (on your House; when you "claim power," it goes on your House unless otherwise specified).

I don't understand why Storm's End replacement effect does not also affect the additional power claimed thanks to Melisandre passive ability.

We are still within the same framework action window where dominance was won. Why would the power gained thanks to dominance should be treated differently than any other?

Bolzano said:

Because claiming power for dominance is step 3, and passives are step 4.

@Rogue30 : I know the power is claimed before passive abilities are triggered but my point was because we are still in the same framework action window where dominance was won, Storm's end can trigger again. It'ss not limited to one power or once per phase.

I know you are probably right but I can't understand why in the game timing.

Anyway if it didn't work as you said, I could just claim infinite power just thanks to Melisandre pasive ability triggering itself thanks to the additional gained power... that would be non sense but I just don't understand how the timing works here.

Bolzano said:

Storm's end does not trigger when you win dominance. It's simply tells you that you may do something different when you win dominance.

It effectively says: instead of claiming 1 power for dominance, you may claim 1 power each for 2 different HB characters.

And more to the point, Storm's End only applies to the actual claiming of power for winning Dominance in Step 3, not to every time you claim power for your House during the Dominance phase.

Let's say that I bring "Shadow Politics" out of Shadows at the beginning of the Dominance phase. I then win Dominance with Storm's End out. Two power on characters. Nice. Then I do my intrigue challenge from the event and win it unopposed. Does Storm's End trigger here and instead of 1 power for unopposed on my House, I get 2 on my characters because I won Dominance that phase?

Of course not, but if you are going to say that Storm's End triggers and applies to Mel's "claim 1 additional power," why wouldn't it apply to my Shadow Politics example?

ktom said:

Obviously it doesn't work for such things as any power gained during dominance phase and I never meant that.

However, I meant that Storm's end effect does apply when I claim 1 additional power with Mel ability because we are still inside the same framework action window and so the condition "if you win dominance" can be checked successfully. Then Melisandre passive ability's effect of claiming an additional power can be replaced successfully by Storm's end effect.

Bolzano said:

First, Storm's End is a replacement effect, not a passive effect. As such, it can only be applied to the initiation and resolution of claiming power when you win dominance. Said another way, it does not activate when you win dominance (the way that Melisandre does). Rather, it is a condition that is always active while the card is in play that changes what you do when you do win dominance.

Second, Melisandre is a discrete effect from claiming power when yo win dominance. It does not modify the win - it is a completely separate effect (like Core Set Robert claiming an "additional power" when he wins Renown, or the "additional card" you get to draw with the Kings of Summer Agenda). It happens completely separately, and after, you claim power for winning dominance. Checking to see if you have won dominance is over and done with when Melisandre's ability activates, so there is no application of Storm's End. Since Storm's End isn't checked at all as part of resolving Melisandre's ability, it doesn't matter if it would check successfully or not. It doesn't matter that the car has gas in it if no one turns the key.

Third, even if it weren't a replacement effect, the "if you win dominance" effect of Storm's End can only apply once during the window, unless you happen to actually win dominance twice in the same window. Storm's End only applies to power claimed for winning dominance, not to all power claimed for your House in the "award dominance" framework action window. If it could "still be checked successfully," then wouldn't Melisandre's "when win dominance" effect continue to be checked successfully until you gained enough power to end the game? Or wouldn't the "if you do not win dominance" text on the Refugees continue to check successfully until you ran out of gold and had to discard them?

So, end result: Storm's End is not a passive ability. It is a claim replacement that only applies to the framework claim of power when dominance is won. Even if it was a passive effect, it could only be applied once in the action window. In either case, since Melisandre's passive ability is not the same action or effect as that power claim, Storm's End can't be applied. The mechanics for saying Storm's End applies twice, once to the framework power claim and once for Melisandre's separate and distinct effect, just don't work out.