X-Agenda decks suffer a lot control deck.

Martell Red Viper Summer deck for example. Recycling bleeds with open market. Valar. Wildfire.

Same thing with Targaryen control with the hill. With my deck I lost lots of time against this archetip played by dondiego.

In the other hand I think that the bad thing is that you have to create at the moment a deck against it. So maybe the targaryen control deck worked not so good against other archetip.

The new agenda will for sure create great deck but very skilled people. Bleeds will be for free. Maybe too proud to bow will se more play (think about the fact also brotherhood are neutral) and the agenda will help this event to be played.

The idea of Rogue can work. But at the moment I think 3 limits can do better.

In this way if you need stealth you concentrate on wildlings (for example will greyjoy riders). If you need icons and want to play some key char in house: Jon Snow, Benjen you play NW agendas. Paying 4 a 8 army deadly triicon is very good but not "banneble".

Too Proud to bow is also a great option. When I drew it in my games at Gencon, I don't think it was less than great (discarding Val, Wildling/NW Army, etc) 4 out of 5 games.

I agree Kennon, as I said before too proud to bow is an unestimeted event. And with easy influence (agenda) can work in a lot of decks.

I'm posting my deck so maybe we can discuss potential, weakeness, banneble things, ecc

The real benefit of the Neutral house is that their Fury isn't going to trigger, their traitors will only hurt them, that kind of thing. Not that I would mind a 5-7-1 blank plot, considering the Fury in joust only goes off 1/3 of the time.

Funny. In one of my predictions, I said that Too Proud to Bow was going to be huge at GenCon. Everyone laughed at me.

Hahaha, it was part of my secret tech against the Wildlings! I wasn't going to give it away just days before the event.

WolfgangSenff said:

Dobbler, Kennon, and I talked about it HUGE in the weeks leading up to the tourney. But, in the end, it didn't make the cut. Fallen Brother was too much easier.

Geez...I mean traitorous crow of course. This is why I usually don't name cards

~Of course, Traitorous Crow doesn't stop those broken MWNK decks. ;P

i have just uploaded the result of the Stahleck Joust.

a closer look at it tells, that only 2 of 7 all-north-agendsa-decks made it to the top16. if oyu want, you can add gualdos 5agenda deck as a third.

still imo that is no prove of being broken.

of course its thematically stupid, and also the games are quite boring. but thats another story ...

thorondor said:

If anything its not the 6 agendas that seem over used but the wildlings. 6 of the top 10 had all 3 wildling agendas and 9 of the top 20.

The NW are most likely fine on their own or if anything under powered but the wildling agendas mixed in with what cards they get are a little over powered it seems.

It Stahleck I played a 6-agenda Stark deck with a 3-1-0-3 result. My 3 losses where to Martell and Lannister. In one match, the requirement of 12 additional power resulted in a timed win, as my Lannister opponent was able to stop me at 23 power after finally drawing 3 additional cards per turn through Golden Tooth Mines. Here is what I got from the experience:

The 5/6 agenda decks provide you with cards that anybody without hesitation would call BROKEN if they where printed without the agenda context:

3 x Wildling Horde. Gold Cost: 0. Strength 9. Wildling, Stealth, Deadly. Mil+Pow Icons.
3 x Defenders of the North. Gold Cost: 1-2. Strength 8. Night´s Watch. Deadly. Mil+Int+Pow Icons.
1 x Coldhands. Gold Cost: 4. Strength 5. Stealth. Cannot be killed. Mil+Int+Pow Icons.

Not to mention other cheap 3-icon 4-Str. stealth cards with effective gold costs of 1 such as Mance Raider, Jon Snow and the superb Skinchanger.

In a Stark Deck, you also get
Wolves of the North. Gold Cost: 0-1. Strength 6. Deadly. Mil Icon.

A lot of decks will just be crushed by these overpowered cards in combination with claim-2 plots. The requirement of 10-12 additional power for the 5/6 agenda deck is often not a real drawback, as you are able to just run over them, block any of their challenges, discard their hand and kill their characters. The result of the additional power needed then is just that the suffering of your opponents will last longer. If they don´t concede, they have to go through additional turns as you initiate challenge after challenge against them without much opposition.

Without consideration of house specific draw, the 5/6 agenda deck in general also has access to more than decent card draw through Val. As most of the powerful characters cost almost nothing, you can quickly refill your ranks after a reset with her. The deck also has access to multiple A Sword in the Darkness to draw 2 cards. Of course, if combined with Martell or Lannister, you get their draw as well.

In my experience, only draw-heavy trick-decks that do not really care for the power of the opponent´s characters such as Lannister Kneel and Martell with A Taste for Blood stand a chance against that. Due to the not-so-good setup of 5-6 agenda decks, very fast decks might also steal a win sometimes.

If you combine the already powerful Martell cards with the brokenness above, you get a winning deck.

It´s not Nedly. It´s not balanced.

For game balance purposes and to enable more decks to be competitive, I am all for an errata to either the agendas or the broken armies.

AegonTargaryen, you left out traitorous crow:

3 gold, 4 str, stealth, mil, intrigue, pwr, plus kills someone in a mirror match

about traitorus. If nobody played them except me maybe they find them not so cheap. I used them for mirror but have to had 3x kingdom of shadows to have them strong anyway.

I find them good on their own, especially when you starting throwing the Nights Watch trait around with cards like Old Nan. Auto x3 in my opinion.

Mathias Fricot said:

Old Nan can't trigger her ability before Traitorous Crow comes out of the Shadows. Against a heavy NW/Wildling environment they are strong, but otherwise they are indeed pricey to put them in the Shadows and bring them out to only sack one of your own characters.

FATMOUSE said:

You could still use the bael the bard´s song, which was rarely seen at Stahleck. Also Rhaegar´s Harp could help, well it´s not an auto include trait manipulation but it could be used.

Anyway i agree, that the x- agenda decks are too strong for a healthy enviroment, well one could say you could play every house as long a s you run wildlings but that´s not or shouldn´t be the spirit of the game right?

Probably Henry Ford would say : "You can run every deck as long as it´s a wildling deck".

hmm just my 2 cents, but I think a very simple solution would be to rule these armies "lower the cost.. to a minimum of 4" that way more than 3 agendas would still make some sort of sense (traitors, coldhands whatever) but not make those armies extremely undercosted, while keeping them playable.

Anyway, I´d extremly prefer an errata or even a ban to a "silver bullet" anti-card, or to plain nothing.

I used bael the bard's plot for 2 months in my deck... far way better a 2 claim instead!!! But of ocurse with a heavily trait manipulation deck it is autoinclude (both plot and traitorus)

What about Bear Island?

bloodycelt said:

I managed to keep a 6-agenda Stark under control in Melee at Stahleck using Bear Island... it's pretty useful against those decks. However, any deck with agendas will be running at least 3x Wildling Spikes (also some Frozen Solid if it's a Stark), which causes some problems. Then again you can run your own Frozen Solid's defensively to keep Bear Island operational...

...so yes, it's a solution, not a perfect one, but workable. Of course, going that route you'll need a build that can work with only Stark cards in play, which isn't that hard as Stark has a pretty good card pool now, but it doesn't fit in every Stark deck.