So what all do you think going into the founding of a new Chapter? I honestly doubt the Mechanicus just implants 1000 people and says "ok, pick a Chapter Master".

I personally imagine that experianced Marines from other Chapters, most likely Chapters that share a geneseed, to train the new Marines and probably hold the positions of Chapter Master and Company Captains temporaraly.

Hmmm, this could actually be an interesting Deathwatch assignment...

Baradiel said:

I would assume that a Captain of another (gene-related) chapter becomes the first chapter master?

Alex

That is what I was thinking, probably a handful of a few others too to serve at Captains of the Companies.

That certainly seems to be how it works. I know, for instance, that the Black Templars are a successor chapter of the Imperial Fists. The first Chapter Master of the Black Templars was one of the Captains of the Imperial Fists. I am pretty certain that it works that way for each new chapter.

Well.... if we're to go by the (highly none standard) 21st founding, they actually grow them in a tube clone trooper style. One would imagine that they 'engineered' officers while they were at it....

Edsel62 said:

Remember that was the Second Founding, when the Legions were broken up. The first Black Templars were Imperial Fists.

Yeah, the Imperial Fists were split 3 times during the Second Founding. The Astartes most loyal to Dorn were kept as Imperial Fists. Those Astartes that were the most zealous were sent with Sigismund, the Emperor's Champion of the Imperial Fists during the assault on Terra, to found the Black Templars. The youngest Imperial Fists were formed into the Crimson Fists.

Other than that, there really has not been much Fluff on the subject, other than the Cursed Founding.

It is mentioned that certain Chapters will detach some of their most talented Astartes to other Chapters, thus spreading their skills to other Chapters. For example, the Hawk Lords are the masters of Thunderhawk insertions and operations. It is not unknown for other Chapters to send their Astartes to the Hawk Lords, so that they can bring these tactics back to their Chapter.

I would assume that maybe a handfun of Veteran Astartes and Officers would be allowed to leave their "parent" Chapter, and assume command of a new Chapter. It would take time, as the new Chapter would have to figure out their purpose and heraldry.

The old Index Astartes series had articles relevant to this question. In short:

- The High Lords of Terra approve the founding of a new Chapter(s).

- The Adeptus Mechanicus uses stored tithed Geneseed either a) directly as is ( as in 100% Ultramarine for example ) or b) makes a cocktail.

- It takes approximately 55 years to produce 1000 sets of healthy organs. The organs are gown in test-slaves.

- Although the Index articles do not directly mention it, it is reasonable to assume that a new Chapters officer core is chosen from an existing Chapter. The choice probably involves a lot of politics, deals and honor debts. Does the honor of staffing a new Chapter go the Dark Knights or the Black Panthers? The former have an unbroken record of victories going back three centuries but the latter have the support of Inquisitor Lord Marsden.

I'd guess at least the senior members of a new Chapter are probably taken from heroic members of (as someone else said) related chapter(s). Most likely someone who is worthy of command, but stuck at just being a company commander and likely to be there for a long, long time to come. Probably a slightly dubious honor. On one hand a huge deal to help found a new chapter. But still sad to leave your old comrades, even if you get to bring some of your most trusted companions with.

Dulahan said:

Yes. The first Crimson Fists chapter-master was Alexis Polux, an Imperial Fists captain.

Alex

The team needed to train and lead 1000 initiates would be at least 50 strong imo. The Apothecary team alone would need to be at least as large as an operational Chapter.

Either officers are recruited into the new chapter or seconded (like Deathwatch) to it until the 1st generation in ready to be independent. The new Chapter might be 'attached' to an existing one for the first generation - with the original providing the training and oversight of operations.

What happens to the recruited officiers geneseed - if the new Chapter is a blend rather than a straight donation? Unless it was returned to the original Chapter you would have different geneseed lines within one Chapter.

The team needed to train and lead 1000 initiates would be at least 50 strong imo. The Apothecary team alone would need to be at least as large as an operational Chapter.

You only need a minimum core of senior officers and specialists. During the period of formation and initial training, I would guess that a selection for training to specialist roles ( apothecaries etc. ) would happen. So the Apothecarion would consist of a few old transferred medics and their apprentices.

Either officers are recruited into the new chapter or seconded (like Deathwatch) to it until the 1st generation in ready to be independent. The new Chapter might be 'attached' to an existing one for the first generation - with the original providing the training and oversight of operations.

Seconding is problematic if the old officers simply leave after the activation of the Chapter. What a fresh Chapter needs is experience. The cadre provides this and ensures that the first few encounters of the Chapter do not end in disaster. You need continuity.

What happens to the recruited officiers geneseed - if the new Chapter is a blend rather than a straight donation? Unless it was returned to the original Chapter you would have different geneseed lines within one Chapter.

I concur that it probably is returned to the officers original Chapter ( or possibly send to the AdMech as part of the 5% tithe ).

Aajav-Khan said:

Normally the Apothecary team only needs to manage a few new recruits at a time. I am imagining that the Apothecary workload for implantation, aftercare for 1000 initiates would require 10 apothecaries.

I'm not entirely convinced that they would always start new chapters with 1000 members. I'd say you start with a reasonable lower amount (50-100) and in time those marines may become the 'officers'. This would require a much smaller command cadre taken form other chapters initially. Plus, given that the chapter wouldn't probably be thrown outright into some heavy combat, they would gain numbers quickly (baring casualties, space marines may almost quadruple their numbers in 10 years).

decPL said:

The fluff states that 1000 sets of implants are prepared - of course the implantation could be staggered.

Another way of doing it would be to build up the new Chapter entirely within an existing one. Different uniforms, different recuiting world and sometimes with a different Geneseed line, but operating within the host command structure. Essentially a new 10th Company is created with a the new uniforms et al, but conducts operations in support of the host Chapter until independent.

BaronIveagh said:

The Cursed 21st Founding was highly irregular event as its focus was perfecting and removing deficiencies in flawed gene-seed, and ultimately the production of a new Primarch-like being in project "Homo Sapiens Novus".

I don't think anything similar was attempted before or after it...

its an interesting idea especially for high level players maybe when we get the equvilent of an acenscion book ? it could be the players are actually helping another chapters birth , think of them as midwives helping to train and protect the fledgling chapter. The flight of the Esienstien gives strong hints of how the grey knights were created from only a few still loyal marines and although the GK are far from normal chapter it shows that few are potentially needed. It could make an interesting campaign though as the players seek out recruits , and resources , do they need to capture a new home world? convience the natives ? or build a monstery in an isolated area? convince the imperial governor its a good idea? (who may welcome them or fear the planet will eventually come under Astartes rule) it could be they are fleet based and need to gain ships and dockyards , a chapter needs all these things not just bodies and gene seed