Does anyone else think Rally Cry (Ultramarines Chapter Defensive Stance) looks a bit too god?

It has no costs (which no other ability has), is a Free Action and restores the groups entire base cohesion. It would also seem to be the only Chapter Squad Mode Stance that does not require a Tactical Expertise test, as it doesn't effect any squad members.

This ability makes Ultrasmurfs such a ridiculously overpowered leader Chapter that no one will ever play anything else if they're even thinking about beaing the Kill-Team Leader. (as a side not I have nothing against Ultramarines, I think they're awesome, but this is just a bit too much, on top of Favoured Son and their cheap access to Command increases. (and that's not even considering the Exemplar of Honour talent)

In my campaign I will nerf Rally Cry, making it a once-per-mission ability that requires a command test. Does this seem to harsh?

I am also considering removing Exemplar of Honour from the Ultramarine Advances and adding it to the Tactical Marine Advances at Rank 4.

According to something someone has posted somewhere on this forum ( ), Ross has indicated that any squad member can activate their own Chapter patterns, not just the squad's leader. That means any Ultramarines in the squad can pull off this trick to keep your Cohesion up. Of course, the Squad Mode rules are so full of holes right now that it's hard to say how the hell they'll sort out.

Although I agree that the Squad mode stuff is ridiculously broken right now. Rally cry is already limited to once per Game Session. That is probably much more powerful than once per Mission, but in either case, having an Ultramarine around makes for a doubling of Cohesion.

Radomo said:

I have a player who has an Ultramarine Tactical Rank 1 with Fel 50, Command +10, Lead From The Front Power Armour. That fellow can lead, I can assure you. When he reaches Rank 3, he'll be able to share his squad mode bonuses with quite some ease.

Alex

Each use of a Fate Point restores 1 Cohesion (and most Marines will have 3+ to use each session) ( I think, no rulebook at the moment)

Each objective completed restores 1 Cohesion (again, no rulebook at this precise moment).

Given that a squad of 5 Marines will have the opportunity to restore 15 Cohesion (plus any objectives completed) each Session, I don't see the real problem with this ability. It's really flavorful as a "tight spot" emergency measure. I don't think it will alter the game dynamics forcefully.

A large part of my grudge against the ability is that it is Ultramarine only. I dislike anything in a game that makes one Class/Homeworld/Chapter/Race a no-brainer choice for anything, and that is just what Ultramarines have become in Deathwatch. Especially as they are the only ones who can access Exemplar on Honour as well, making them the only Chapter with any options for restoring extra Cohesion outside of the normal sources (Fate Poits etc.).

I think it's just as annoying that Blood Angels are the No-brainer Assault Marines.

One of the reasons I started on my Mentor Legion Chapter build was to have another viable Squad Leader class that wasn't Ultramarine or Space Wolf (yes, they make decent leaders). However you'll notes that Rally Cry was nowhere on my build. As far as defensive Squad Mode abilities go, it's not that good. I mean, sure, in an emergency, restoring a lot of Cohesion is nice, but it's hardly necessary. A good leader with a decent Fellowship or Willpower can prevent most forms of Cohesion Loss in the first place, thus allowing the only forms of Cohesion loss to be when the Kill Team spends cohesion on new Squad Mode Formations. Let's say I decide to make a Dark Angel "leader" type, in this case, a Tactical Marine. Let's say, just for argument, that knowing I want to lead, I work it out so I can start with 50 Fellowship (not difficult). Now a Space Wolf or Ultramarine can start with 60, but that's not that big a deal, really anything above 40 is sufficient. Since all Tactical Marines start with Command, this boosts Cohesion to 6 at start. Now, obviously, a TUM (Tactical Ultramarine) can start with 60 Fellowship and Command +10, which allows them to start with 8 Cohesion, but 8 vs. 6 at Rank 1 is a modest difference. 6 can more than do what's needed for any given mission.

For example, if both officers take Oath of the Astartes, that's 10 and 8, respectively. The two sustained Patterns, Squad Advance and Tactical Spacing, cost 1 point each. Bolter Assault costs 3. But you also get Sustained Suppression which can be shared to the entire squad at 2 points and Immovable Defence for the same. Both are awesome skills, the former lets the Kill Team chew apart enemies and not have to worry about surprise flanking maneuvers as they advance, and the other makes them touch as nails and even more shooty. In comparison, the TUM gets Lead By Example, which admittedly, is REALLY good. In this case it's a +6 to all tests (shooting and melee included), and a free re-roll to on member of the Kill Team, and it becomes +12 or more later (up to +14/16). Rally Cry, meanwhile, only makes it so that you get Cohesion back. It doesn't save lives or kill enemies, at least by itself. Given the rulings (and I may be reading these the wrong way), an Ultramarine doesn't even need to be squad leader to use this power. It can't be improved, it's always going to be somewhere between 4-8 cohesion, depending on the marine (in this case, 6). It's a nice ability if everything's gone to hell, but given that you don't need to be the leader to use it, it hardly makes the Ultramarine the ultimate leader. Lead By Example is far more impressive to that end. In fact, you're better off not having the Ultramarine be the leader so that a Tactical Marine from another Chapter can grant his awesome defense ability to the rest of the team. Or having another speciality in charge so you can take a different oath. Tactical Marines get the best selection, but there are oaths they can't take that are really very good.

Meanwhile, on the subject of regaining cohesion, let's talk about that. It's already been brought up several times that a Back Banner helps in this regard greatly, since it doubles cohesion from fate point expenditures, but good roleplaying can garner these as well. Think, for example, of the Lord of the Rings movies. There we have a perfect example of a clashing of culture, traditions, and fighting styles, while still developing of teamwork and friendship between Legolas and Gimli. They start off the series disliking each other, but by the end of it have a deep-seated friendship for one another, though they still have their competition. Odd as it may sound, Gimli as a Dark Angel (taciturn loner who is tough as hell, never mind the ranged spec), with Legolas as a Space Wolf (excellent tracker, hunter, and charismatic type), always fighting a duel before each mission, each comparing kills afterwards, but when one is in trouble, the other brings down hell to save him. And of course, with a jump pack and a melta bomb, the Space Wolf rushes in and takes out a massive Ork Wartruck loaded to the gills with Heavy Armored Nobz, to which the Dark Angel shouts out through the din of combat, "That still only counts as one!"

On the Back Banner, well, let's go through a potential mission, with the Oath of Astartes. Let's say there are three primary objectives. On each objective, we start off using the Dark Angel Attack Pattern (We're being careful, after all). We're now at 6 cohesion. Partway through the objective, we realize we're getting bogged down and we need to double-time it, so the Squad Leader calls for Squad Advance, letting the team cover-hop as they blast their way to the objective. We're now at 5. Once we get to the objective, a few people must be exposed to perform a task, and thus is under heavier fire while everyone else can take cover, so we use Tactical Spacing until the task is complete. We're now at 4. Objective complete, we regain one Cohesion bring us back to 5. We repeat this for Objective 2. That's 5-2-1-1 which brings us to 1 Cohesion before getting the objective boost at the end of the second objective. We're now at 2 Cohesion, which means to repeat this, someone needs to spend a fate point. Ideally, this should have been happening throughout the mission, but let's assume it hasn't until now. At this point, the GM could try to send some nasty things the player's way to mess with them, break cohesion and invoke a sense of being overwhelmed. As a starting character, the leader would only have about a 50% chance of resisting damage from this, but all Space Marines have lots of fate points. With a Back Banner, 3 points would bring the team's cohesion back up to pretty much full, 7-8. Asssuming there are 5 players, you're going to have somewhere between 15-25 fate points at start, 3 is hardly a huge loss. By Objective 3, the team has to hold position long enough for extraction, at which point the leader attempts to share his Dark Angel Defense Pattern with the team as they dig in. 2 points, and the Kill Team holds the line.

Now I could go on and make more examples for leaders who aren't tactical marines OR Ultramarines, but I think the basic concept gets across. Ultramarines can make great leaders, and they're geared for it, but to say they're the only choice is just not the case. I mean it's tempting, Lead by Example is awesomesauce, but Rally Cry is mediocre at best. Usable only once per session, no improvements, and no ability to actually save lives by itself? It's useful, don't get me wrong, but a few fate points, good roleplaying, and finished objectives gets you the same end result, but with added benefit of having a defensive pattern that's useful in protecting the Kill Team.

But back on the subject, with 6 cohesion (8 with one of the oaths), you're hardly hurting for points. You can do the Codex abilities until the cows come home, and the really useful chapter abilities can be kept going for a long time. A Tactical Ultramarine is better at keeping cohesion high and near full, sure, but you don't get points by ending the mission with full cohesion. All of the various Chapter Defensive Patterns are really nice for keeping people alive (though the Space Wolf patterns seem reversed, the attack gives the best defensive buffs, and the defensive one gives the best attack buffs), except the Ultramarine one.

The best thing about the Ultramarine Chapter is that you can pick any speciality and it can be a slightly more effective leader than another chapter might baseline, but it's hardly the end-all be all. Each chapter is supposed to have a range of things they are particularly good at, but that doesn't mean you can't have other chapters in similar roles. Blood Angels aren't the only ones good at being Assault Marines or Librarians, Dark Angels aren't the only ones good at being Devestator Marines, and Ultramarines aren't the only ones good at being Leaders, nor are Tactical Marines. They're better in certain circumstances, but all of that depends on the mission at hand.

Thanks for such a long and well thought through response.

I agree that it's a great drawback losing a potentially awesome Defensive Squad Stance to get Rally Cry , and no, in most missions the ability to regain 5-7 cohesion in one go (for free, as a free action... ) isn't going to be game-breaking, but I'd still much rather had them skip Rally Cry at all (replacing it with something else of course), and let all Tactical Marines have Exemplar of Honour in their Specialty Path. This would have moved the focus more to versatility, and less towards easy Chapter choices.

I would have loved for the chapter specific Solo Abilities to be a "Choose One" like the Specialty choices to make the Chapter - > Specialty choice more open. For example giving Space Wolves a choice of Wolf Senses , something for melee and something that underscores their easy leadership and camraderie, and giving Blood Angels a choice of Blood Frenzy, and maybe something that uses the visions of Sanguinius for something productive.

Ps. The LoTR references were pretty epic.