Militarywizard said:

And teh last alliance of men and elves sends a wayward band of halflings into the chaos wastes to destroy the ring of Archaon.

Peacekeeper_b said:

That would probably be the worst idea ever for WFB

For me the atlernative future looks interesting and gives a lot of potential to the game. But still it's only a alternative version.

I think that setting a campain it that time would give my players a little feeling like they would play Midnight. So Evil is everywhere, You can't rust no one, everybody could be a traitor - and that would be really a grimm session. But you can alway do such a thing just in the time of Archaon, so there is no need to jump to the alternative future.

I love the idea, I def going to use it as the real deal. If you're toooo afraid you can always call it the alternative timeline (making chicken noises).

For me this will be the RIGHT timeline.

my players can take it. and it certainly adds a more dynamic page to the storyline. frozen in time concept is bad for rpgs. best to advance the world every now and then, so it feel more real.

and this storyline are more aligned with the 1st edition, which clearly says that Chaos will win in the end. The question is not IF but WHEN. And I take its up to every GM to decide for himself if this is the time to advance the timeline or postpone it.

For me I have waited nearly 20 years for something exciting to happen in the world of warhammer. This time its promising, I want EVOLUTION not STAGNATION, even if it means that my beloved Empire will be destroyed (or as someone mentioned a bloated corpse ready for the vultures to take).

and my players are vultures.

good gaming and prepare for the END TIMES

Well Mal its not that Im afraid of this new "ALTERNATE" timeline, I just find it derivative, unimaginative and not interesting. The Empire is besieged by Chaos, again, the only difference is this time it "falls" but of course, you know by the end of book two it will "re-rise".

I would rather it be a Empire civil war, that ends with a new emperor and maybe a province or two breaking away to form their own nation.

Kharrak said:

Er... If my geography is correct, wouldn't they have to plough through the dark elves first? If the Empire is destroyed, does this mean that Brettonia would be the new human frontier against chaos ( Cue cheese eating surrender monkey jokes)?

It strikes me that this version of the fluff will serve to show from a fluff perspective how different armies can have 'plausible' battles versus one another. In other words it creates narrative scenarios for battles between armies that in the warhammer world almost never face each other. When do Lizardmen ever get to fight anyone as the fluff stands?

Bad Birch said:

Well, aside from that very odd run-in with the Brettonians...

But yeah, I agree with Peacekeeper. This scenario might make for a fun one-off "alternate history" campaign, but overall the whole idea of this being the "actual" timeline is pretty... dull. It's like one of those Marvel "What if...?" comics; they're basically just taking the chance they have to kill off every major player for no reason other than that they can. That doesn't really make for an interesting campaign in my eyes. Granted, keeping everything in the status quo isn't exactly exciting either, but you're basically looking at two separate extremes: either keep everything the same or change everything just because you can. I don't really like either.

Plus yeah... I know Chaos is the ever-present threat, but still, you can only use it so often before your PCs just start to yawn at it. A civil war scenario, perhaps punctuated by a looming threat of an (uncertain) incoming Chaos incursion, or rumors of the great Skaven acension, or even the return of the Vampire Counts (ala the whole Vampire Wars during the Age of Three Emperors), would be far more interesting in my opinion.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Yeah I agree it migt seem unimaginative and not interesting. But a civil war is pretty much the same as an chaos invasion. it all comes down to personal preferences. We allready have seen two civil wars in the Empire (the last one, was stoped by brave adventurers in Empire in Flames). But still what you describe could pretty much be the end result in both cases, with new nations forming out of a devasted empire.

Maybe even the high elves will form a colony or two in what was the empire. Impossible to tell with all this rumour milling arround.

the thing is I want a big shake-up of the old world, be it a chaos invasion or civil war. In that sense it will feel more dynamic and real. And alternativ settings is just bad, make it official GW and make it stand. whatever they choose.

good gaming

The problem with an 'apocalypse' scenario like this is that it ends up being a flop (see WhiteWolf).

Allow me to explain a bit of this perspective. The history of the empire is NOT frozen. What seems like its frozen is only the springboard for a game. So while most of us START in the same empire, the actions of the party, and the events imagined by the GM change that scenario immensly. An example would be an earlier forum discussion about a proposed invasion of the border princedoms and the effect on country politics and the standard Warhammer scenario.

Moving the timeline forward is a problem. While occasional big events are good that give us a new and fresh 'starting point' that everyone can agree on, the problem with them is what if they conflict with your current game? If we started a game 5 years ago, and are still playing, our game events are canon to us. If GW comes along and says 'no, you are wrong. That's not how it happens.' then clearly we have two options. Either we can be grognards that go 'Oh hey, we played it this way so our way is legit' (and thus have everyone roll their eyes at our 'non canon' game) or have to restart/adjust etc.

While this is a vaguely interesting scenario, it doesn't leave alot of options. Sure you might make an interesting campaign, but the PCs no matter how beefy can't resolve the world issues. Even if you decimate dozens of chaos units, you have no hope against the Ruinous Powers. Now I know Warhammer is set up this way currently, but you can make headway on their sway in the empire even if the evil is never permanently vanquished. Setting it to be in your face leads to a sequence of no-win scenarios, which while ultimately somewhat romantic (fighting a battle you cannot win) it leads to repetition and a severe limitation on what stories are available.

The difference between this and say ... the civil war proposal earlier - is that the players can a) affect the outcome of a civil war and b) affect the Empire and the world in the aftermath. With the ruinous powers holding most of the territory with vast unstoppable armies ... not so much. There are moral quandries about a civil war (which side you are on), and there can be stories about ethical decisions (do you kill everyone in a village that supports the other side and harbors its soldiers). In an apocalypse scenario the bad guys are bad, and you squish them or run no questions asked.

So overall ... not sure this is hot stuff. But of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I hope they don't randomly change the geography of the Old World, like WoTC did with the Forgotten Realms.