Has the Sledgehammer weapon from the Lurker been clarified?

We've been playing that it only gives+3 to Combat checks and a separate +1 to Fight checks. I'm basing this conclusion on items like the Telescope and the Makeup Kit that give a bonus to the main skill check, but not to the subset group.

It's my understanding that Combat checks are not formally considered to be special types of Fight checks. Therefore, bonuses to Fight checks do not transfer to Combat checks. Now, if the Sledgehammer gave a bonus to Fight (as opposed to Fight checks), it would be a different story.

Though on the other hand, the Fight skill says "When you spend a Clue token to add to any Fight check, add one extra bonus die." So maybe that line of reasoning doesn't work.

I'm still not sure about that, but I see what you mean though. It's not a skill modifier.

The same way as +1 Speed is not the same as +1 to Speed checks. The former gives you one extra movement point and a +1 to all speed checks, the latter is only a speed check modifier. It's easy to get those two confused however.

Any other thoughts about this?

I would have to say that a Combat Check, is in fact a formal subset of Fight. That's interesting that you don't think so. Alsdo, a +1 Speed Skill card should translate into anything for which you use Speed..thus, 1 extra Movement point, a +1 to Speed Checks, a +1 to Evade checks, and 2 dice rolled for each Clue Token used for either Speed or Evade Checks. It however does not give you a bonus Movement Point for the purposes of reading Tomes, etc.

The Professor said:

That's true. But like zealot12 said, a +1 to Speed would give an extra movement point, but a +1 to Speed checks would not.

This is what the rules say

SPECIAL SKILL CHECKS
There are four special types of skill checks that players should be
aware of: Evade checks, Horror checks, Combat checks, and
Spell checks. Each of these special skill checks use the value of
one of the six basic skills. Bonuses to the skill that a special
check uses apply to the special check as well. However, bonuses
to special checks cannot be used when making normal checks.

It says "Bonuses to the skill," not "Bonuses to the skill check."

wow, I'm really not seeing the difference. Throughout the game, the Investigators make Skill Checks ~ Thus, I'm not sure when the need would arise when an Investigator would need a bonus to a Skill (and not a Skill check). You've intrigued me.

Okay, . If you go back to the the Sledgehammer example. It gives the investigator equipping it +1 to Fight checks(such as the ones made in encounters or when closing a gate), and +3 to Combat checks against monsters and the Ancient One. These are two separate bonuses; they're not related to each other.

Now, if your Fight skill is 3, then you get +3 to Fight checks and +3 to Combat checks.(the skill grants bonuses to normal skill checks and to special skill checks that are based on the same skill).

It also makes sense that trading away the Sledgehammer to another investigator won't improve his physical prowess(Fight skill) The Fight skill is something that is learned, achieved/improved through training, not by wielding a weapon.

However, there is something that still confuses me:

if you have an environment that gives a bonus/penalty to a certain skill check, it should affect the subset group as well. Or shouldn't it? If all Will checks are made at -2 penalty, then it means that all Horror checks also recieve the same penalty(or at least that's how I've always treated this modifier. But this interpretation seems to contradict the rules and what I've tried to explain in the beginning of this post.

it seems like those environments won't have much of an impact on the game if they only provide penalties to normal skill checks, but not to special skill checks.

zealot12 said:

Yes, a strict interpretation of the rules seems to suggest that penalties to basic skill checks do not affect special skill checks. Also, skill cards like Fight would not allow you to roll a bonus dice when spending clue tokens on the associated special skill check (e.g., combat). But that doesn't seem like the game designer's intent. Most perplexing.

On the other hand, if we interpret the rules the other way, then penalties and bonuses to basic skill checks would also affect special skill checks. Among other things, that would give the Sledgehammer a +4 bonus to Combat checks. That doesn't seem right either. Something for the FAQ?

The Professor said:

Other than a rare Velma's Diner encounter which requires your fight to be 4 (and maybe a Ma's Boarding House one). Other than that, that's pretty much it.

The Professor said:

It's not a question of needing one vs needing the other. If a Skill is raised, then the associated skill checks increase along with it. However, if an effect increases a skill check, there's nothing that says that the reverse is true - that the associated Skill would also be raised.

For example, If your Speed is 3, then obviously you'd roll 3 dice for Speed (+0) checks. If your Speed is raised by 1, becoming 4, then you'd roll 4 dice for Speed (+0) checks. However, if your Speed is 3, and an effect gives you a +1 bonus to Speed checks, in that case you'd roll 4 dice for Speed (+0) checks. But your Speed skill would still only be 3 because the effect didn't raise it.

Avec,

That's very clear ~ I've just never split the meaning between the two.

The Professor

Heh. I never thought about it either until the Sledgehammer came along.

If you play against Rhan-Tegoth and draw a Mythos card that forces you to draw monsters from the cup until you get a monster with a specific dimensional symbol, or some other common attribute, do any cultists drawn during this procedure go to Rhan Tegoth's sheet? Seems kinda unfair, if it's so.

If a monster surge occurs as a result of a Mythos card with a gate burst on it, do flying monsters move? Or do they only move if a gate opens as a result of a gate burst?

zealot12 said:

These ones I can answer:

1. Rhan-Tegoth takes ALL Cultists. Even if it's an encounter where you "draw a monster from the cup and keep it as a trophy." William Yorick can have some real trouble during SETUP against Rhan.
2. A gate burst doesn't have to burst a gate to make flying monsters move. It could open a new gate, cause a monster surge, or even be a gate blocked by a seal (via the Great Seal), though I've never even used the Great Seal, let alone seen it block a burst.

avec said:

If I remember correctly... Sledgehammer was addressed in the FAQ (I don't have it with me here though).