actually, there has been NO ruling on this. that's why this question was raised here.

and actually, interpreting rules (laws) is my job IRL. maybe that's one reason why i have more trust in my arguments.

letsdance said:

Honestly, I can't remember if there was an official ruling on it way back when (I think there was). I know that this question keeps popping up, and it will be dealt with hopefully for the last time in the comprehensive FAQ.

letsdance said:

OK so lets look at this from an interpretive standpoint. The way you have interpreted the phrase "before making a combat check" as meaning anytime before making a combat check is flawed since, as someone pointed out already, there is never a time that isn't before a combat check. Apply the same logic to the Magnifying Glass:

"Any phase: Exhaust and discard after you gain a Clue token to gain 1 additional Clue token."

Applying the same logic to that statement I could just discard the card any time to get a clue token even several turns after gaining the initial clue token. This completely ignores the fact that the terms "before" and "after" exist to define the sequence that events take place. This also ignores the fact that the term "Combat Check" refers to a specific roll done within the greater sequence of combat therefore the term "Before making a Combat Check" means exactly right before the combat check being insterted between that and whatever normally comes before, in this case the Horror Check. If it said "Before Combat" I would agree with your interpretation of skiping the horror check since the horror check is also part of combat. Since it specifically makes use of the term "Combat Check" so I do not agree.

And interpreting rules is part of my job too as I often have to make calls on weather or not certain individuals are following regulations correctly. I don't use it as an appeal to authority because interpreting the rules for Arkham Horror isn't my job.

Also, if an investigator fails a Horror check and goes insane, then he would not usually make any more Combat checks for the rest of the turn, and might not make another Combat check for the rest of the game. Therefore, if you use the Flute before making a Horror check that could potentially drive you insane, how do you know if you are using the Flute "before making a Combat check"? You wouldn't know if a Combat check was even in your future until after you made the Horror check.

Another way of putting it is that "after making a Horror check" is the earliest point at which you know that a Combat check is coming, that you are indeed in a state of being "before making a Combat check."

As the person who raised the question about that infernal device, I found the (main) answer I sought on the "Flute of the Outer Gods" page on the Arkham Horror Wiki. It offers two lines about the issue. You may or may not find the clarification useful. (I haven't followed the arguments here too closely.)

It is still a question that needs to be addressed on this comprehensive document, so that people who don't have the time or the inclination to go tromping about the internet can find an answer to this thoroughly vexing question.

Ooh, a question I've always had but never thought to ask about: when you fail to cast a spell that is "Cast and discard" do you have to discard it? We've always played that you only discard the spell if you successfully cast it, but I don't recall our reasoning. (If we indeed had any reasoning and just didn't want to lose our cool spell...)

Veet said:

and as i have pointed out, for the flute that is no problem. we can repeat the same arguments over and over if you like, but it doesn't get us anywhere.

Veet said:

Veet said:

@flamethrower: A spell like Forced Learning, for instance.

You may cast and discard to gain 1 skill.

.You gain the benefit only when you succeed at a spell check. Note that "cast and exhaust" spells are worded similarily-they don't contain failure clauses.

zealot12 said:

Did you read my question?

You don't discard the spell upon failing a spell check. You only gain its benefit if you cast it successfully. The you may "cast" implies success and subsequent discarding of the spell.

zealot12 said:

This isn't what he asked. Since failing a "cast and exhaust" spell still causes the spell to exhaust would failing a "cast and discard" spell still cause the spell to discard. I seem to recall this being addressed at one point but can't remember which way it went.

Aha, my bad.

They should've put an explicit success clause to make this clear.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification! I didn't follow your logic because I didn't consider discarding a benefit.

Do you exhaust a spell if you fail to cast it? We've always played you do, but you do not discard a discard spell if you fail to cast that. It's kind of a double standard, I suppose. *Shrug*

Yes, you do exhaust if you fail to cast it. Otherwise, spells with a sanity cost of 0 may be cast without penalty until a success is rolled

You can apply binary logic here.

Let's take Shriveling for example

Cast and exhaust to gain +6 to Combat checks

if you define the cast condition as A and exhaust/discard condition as B,

1=success/gain benefit; 0=failure/no benefit

You get this:

AXB=1

That is in order to get the benefit of the spell(1), you need that both A and B will get a value of 1(success)

A=1(you succeed at the spell check)

B=1(you exhaust the card)

In all other cases, the AXB will yield you zero(no benefit). Same thing would hold true of cast and discard spells.

IIRC, all spells are meant to be exhausted when you cast them. "Cast and discard" spells get discarded only on a success (so should read "cast and exhaust, if successful, discard").

Dam said:

Yeah, I'm with Dam. I remember this was clarified at some point during the last months. I do not remember the thread, but I'm pretty sure of the answer (unless the new FAQ-draft changes this point, but I hope not.)

Clarification on Eihort's slumber ability:if an investigator with brood tokens is devoured before the AO awakens, are the brood tokens added as extras to his doom track, or are they added directly to the doom track? So for instance, if Eihort has 10 doom tokens on his doom track and an investigator with two brood tokens is devoured, does Eihort immediately awaken?

Uh. Just a general guideline, it might be helpful to Tibs and me (definitely me) if people didn't go off onto huge rules debates. That way we'll (or I'll) be able to read through this list quickly and extract unclear or unanswered questions. If a question remains debateable or isn't easily answered without an advanced degree in Arkham Horrorology (Horticology?), it probably belongs on the FAQ.

Obviously I'm not saying that you have to do this, but I'd appreciate it if you did (the FAQ is a lot of unpaid work, and at this point I just want it done, albeit done well).

Moved here, as per Avi's suggestion:

When starting a character mid-game against Y'Golonac, do the tomes he or she draws count against Y'Golonac's slumber ability?

This, and other questions I have recently posed, may be already covered in the rule books. I will make sure to look at it before I start typing next time. It is not my intent to incite riots.

While I may not have an advanced degree in Arkham Horticology, I do like to think I have completed a lot of the course work. I'm fine with the way I play, and have a solid foundation for any rules decisions I make in a game. I want to make sure any little questions that come to mind make it onto that document, to clear up confusion for future generations.

One player chose/gets randomly Kate Winthrop.

During set up, at the Mytos step 0, the card drawn says to open a gate at her place (Don't know the english name... Scientific Department? ).

What happen?

Just ignore that card and draw a new one? It's what i'd rule, but i'd like to be sure.

Thanks.

You ignore only the gate opening; the special text of the card takes effect, if applicable(unless the card is a rumor-rumors are discarded at setup and a replacement card is drawn.)

zealot12 said:

Yes, but with the new FAQS this will change...

I remember Tibs saying in some old thread that there is a new rule about this case: ALWAYS the first Mytho's card MUST OPEN a gate.

So in the previous example... I think that a new Mytho's card must be drawn until the first gate opens.

I feel like that's silly. Innsmouth already slapped poor Kate senseless. Why not completely take away her special ability while you're at it? That's the main point of Kate's ability. (That, and her debatable interaction with monsters, which is already all over the FAQ.) If she is on the location where a gate opens, it doesn't. End of story. You don't have to draw a new mythos card. You lucked into a reprieve. (Unless the Deep Ones are Rising, of course.) I don't see how this would be different on the first turn - she starts on an unstable location just for this purpose.

I guess I could be wrong. I certainly won't play it that way, though. I rejoice whenever Kate manages to be in the right spot at the right time, barring Arcane Insight shenanigans. First turn sounds good to me.

flamethrower49 said:

I'd guess she'd cancel the gate opening, but it's worth asking anyway since obviously no one knows for sure until it's asked.