There is an overload card that allows frost effect and destroys items..

I am no where near a copy of the game, and hoping for an answer before I show up for the next game session.

Is the item destoryed and put in graveyard or just back in the deck? My player base has no problems with almost anything in the game, but the idea of an item being destoryed and put in graveyard drives them nuts. They really dont think there are many "good" weapons per weapon deck, and if this card can be used mulltiple times (we usually go thru the overlord deck twice per dunegion) The overlord will get very far ahead of them on destroying weapons, and it would ruin the game.

any thoughts on this? sorry i cant name the specific card in question.

Moving cards into the graveyard is explicit. If it doesn't say use the graveyard, don't put them there.

It goes back in the deck. I don't recall the reference, but just about the only things that go into the graveyard are slain lieutenants, and avatar upgrades that are discarded, such as the gem of transport and which ever cards the party decides to get rid of with their reward from the Twins Rumor.

It's possible that I'm wrong, but in any case I'm confidant that I'm right. Hope that helps.

Welcome to the debate on Crushing Blow. (CB)

Here's what people think so far....

Group A. These are the people who believe that CB is completely broken and have removed the card. There is more than one forum post where the OL bought this card early and absolutely destroyed the heroes items at every opportunity, leaving them with hardly anything. It ruined the game and the campaigns ended - in some cases, the players refused to play again because it was so stupid

Group B. These are people who think that CB is way too good but have changed it so that it is more playable. There are a number of ways of doing this. Once per dungeon only, once per 2-3 game weeks, whatever.

Group C. This is like group B, but these Overlords are treating the game as a semi-RPG and are choosing not to use CB even though they could because they know how unfair it is on the players. Some of them only use it on "certain" items (ones which they feel are too "good")

Group D. These people know something just isnt right but arent doing anything about it.

Group E. These people think that CB is ok as it is. In fact, most of these people seem to argue the case that CB is essential to the game itself because it is the only thing the OL can do to remove some items. Without CB in the game, the OL is going to have a very hard time.

The problem with this is that opinions are very divided, and so we are unlikely to see any official ruling one way or the other. Which group you fit in is up to you....

That's an interesting breakdown. I think I fall into both Group C and E. Were I to ever house rule CB, I would probably limit it to having to result from a Melee attack.

I'll tend to play with the POV of Group C and E as well and tend to choose to use CB only when the combination of character + item + abilities + feats are too overwhelming already. For me the goal of the game is stll to have fun with the experience and regular use of CB would really demoralize players and prevent future plays with them

This is a board game...

Treating cards and abilities as an "RPG" element it really beats the purpose. I could play D&D which has alot of hack n' slash and is at least an RPG (sort of anyway)...

The OL goal is to win. The players goal is to win. The overall goal is to have fun. But adding sentiment to the choice of cards the OL plays is the same like telling the players that "ooohhhh look the OL is so nice. When you pick that @$$ kicking treasure do not use it. Look how nice he is. He is not using CB on you". I am not saying to be a rules lawyer. All I am saying we all have an arsenal of cards and powers. We cannot devise a strategy (OL and players alike) on how to play a game based on sentiment. "Hmmm did the OL had a good nights sleep yesterday? Will he be pissed? Or happy because he or she has a new boy/girl friend" :-P

@Paul Grogan

Well yes the groups are divided mate but what the game designers should do is make a fix that is the best choice, as is in game balance. What they need to is to have a balanced game. Any rule they make there will always be someone who soes not like it. But at least let it be balanced. I personally have never seen the card in play till now, so I have no opinion of my own.

Cheers

I agree. I also think it should be a board game and that the OL should not choose not to use a card which he has available to him. If the card is too good, it should be changed. The problem is that a lot of people think it is fine as it is.

I completely agree with balance, and this is why I think a number of other things in RtL need tweaking. However, all the other threads I have read said that Copper is really difficult for the heroes. In some cases, this has caused the group to stop playing because they think the game doesnt work. The same threads talk about how Gold level is too easy for the heroes and they just breeze through the dungeons.

Our first campaign, which we are still at copper level in, has been a walkthrough for the heroes since week 1. They got a lucky combo of skills and characters, then they got a 'way too good' set of items from their first dungeon, and since then most sessions have been mostly a waste of time for me as OL as all my monsters die - I'm lucky if I get a hit in. The conquest totals are 90 to the heroes, and 59 to me.

Do we stop playing and call it a day there? Some say yes, because its all pretty pointless at this stage - there is no real challenge - it isnt a case of winning or losing, it is just a case of how much they can win by. The new objectives for the overlord is "Can I manage to score 1 wound on a character this dungeon level".

Enough moaning. What I am saying is that it seems you are lucky if you get a balanced game. There are so many things in descent which are not balanced, and so much luck involved that some games are distorted right from the start, and it is difficult to come back from. My initial thoughts on balancing the game more include helping the overlord when he is behind, 'balancing' certain skills and treasures, or even removing certain skills from the initial choices (and making the heroes travel somewhere to learn them). However, this is based on my personal experience, whereas all the other forum threads seem to say that the OL gets ahead at the start and the heroes need all the help they can get.

thanks for the replies.

i think for the sake of our gaming group we will either limit the cards use or not use it. If it ruines the fun of every player it will only lead to the game not being played. I do it the use for it to stop really overpowered characters, because there is little ways to stop them once they get all the best of everything in items.

I'm in group E.

Now (TOI expantion) heroes can use feat cards and with "preventing evil" feat card they can block CB.

Slimak said:

Yeah, I think I'll less issues with CB once I get ToI and the Heroes can use Feats for that purpose.

Well we are at copper and we are doing well...

The next session is important. I'll let you know :-)

To be honest in the campaign everything seems much more easier for me, but there is still a lot of challenge. Well for a change we are winning so maybe I am too happy about it not to notice that we will ontinue to do so and the OL will just get creamed? Not sure but I will know in a few more sessions I believe.

And yes, there are a ton of stuff that need tweaking and balancing. Again there are so many factors that in the end you must take an adventure as it comes.