Clarification on overwatch

By Cromwell Bootstrap, in Deathwatch

I'm a bit confused on the wording of overwatch.

One of my players seems to think that you can make the attack multiple times between turns (he plays a lot of space Hulk and I think that's how it works in that game).

I find the wording a little unclear but would be inclined to think that you make your overwatched attack and then are no longer on overwatch. If it works as my friend thinks then surely you could simply set your triggering condition to 'an enemy moves in my killzone' and blaze away at the target whenever they take a step?

Anyone have any insights or opinions?

I also notice that the summary line on the action table indicates a -20 penalty to BS but this is not repeated in the full description.

Cromwell Bootstrap said:

I'm a bit confused on the wording of overwatch.

One of my players seems to think that you can make the attack multiple times between turns (he plays a lot of space Hulk and I think that's how it works in that game).

I find the wording a little unclear but would be inclined to think that you make your overwatched attack and then are no longer on overwatch. If it works as my friend thinks then surely you could simply set your triggering condition to 'an enemy moves in my killzone' and blaze away at the target whenever they take a step?

Anyone have any insights or opinions?

I also notice that the summary line on the action table indicates a -20 penalty to BS but this is not repeated in the full description.

When I read the "The active character then specifies either Full Auto Burst, or Semi Auto Burst, or Suppressing Fire along with the conditions they will perform the attack" that makes me think its attack singular. But the next line makes me question that. "At any time the specified conditions are met before the start of his next turn, he can perform that attack."

I believe that while misleading because it says THAT vs THE attack could be an indicator

The only difference between this if its a single attack and a delay is that firing the burst is a full action

From the Dark Heresy Rulebook, I don't want to type everything but key points

"Overwatch is an extended action that can operate over multiple rounds of combat"

"Pick an area to watch, known as your killzone it extends 45 degrees out from the direction you are facing up to half the range of the weapon.It is often easier to say you are covering a specific area such as a corridor, section of treeline, or doorway"

"Establishing your Killzone takes a full turn"

Essentially you can continue overwatch a number of hours equal to your willpower bonus but as soon as you fire overwatch ends

"Once you have used your Full Auto Burst Action, Overwatch ends. You may opt to end Overwatch during your Turn, even if you have not used your reserved shot."

so if i am reading this correctly, basically gives you one free attack, at any time, as long at the conditions are met, at half range and -20 bs

That would be my take on it as well. Thanks for the input

Cleric Cromwell said:

so if i am reading this correctly, basically gives you one free attack, at any time, as long at the conditions are met, at half range and -20 bs

It's not really a free attack. It's more like a highly specified Delay action. Overwatch is a Full Action, so you are essentially holding your attack until an enemy becomes visible or some other condition. It's only 'free' under Sustained Suppression (Dark Angel Squad Ability).

Radomo said:

Cleric Cromwell said:

so if i am reading this correctly, basically gives you one free attack, at any time, as long at the conditions are met, at half range and -20 bs

It's not really a free attack. It's more like a highly specified Delay action. Overwatch is a Full Action, so you are essentially holding your attack until an enemy becomes visible or some other condition. It's only 'free' under Sustained Suppression (Dark Angel Squad Ability).

Its still not that "free". The squad mode ability doesn't automatically trigger overwatch. It just means that when they do use overwatch, and have the ability sustained, they may act normally (but still trigger overwatch when they want). Remember, the wording actually means the "can act", not "must act", so a player can choose not to use overwatch when they see an enemy.

But when they fire using overwatch, overwatch ends, and they have to restart it in order to act again.

All dark angels actually get is the ability to act without actually losing overwatch. Which is nice. It does not mean they are always considered to be in overwatch, or that overwatch does not end when they actually use it.

KommissarK said:

Radomo said:

Cleric Cromwell said:

so if i am reading this correctly, basically gives you one free attack, at any time, as long at the conditions are met, at half range and -20 bs

It's not really a free attack. It's more like a highly specified Delay action. Overwatch is a Full Action, so you are essentially holding your attack until an enemy becomes visible or some other condition. It's only 'free' under Sustained Suppression (Dark Angel Squad Ability).

Its still not that "free". The squad mode ability doesn't automatically trigger overwatch. It just means that when they do use overwatch, and have the ability sustained, they may act normally (but still trigger overwatch when they want). Remember, the wording actually means the "can act", not "must act", so a player can choose not to use overwatch when they see an enemy.

But when they fire using overwatch, overwatch ends, and they have to restart it in order to act again.

All dark angels actually get is the ability to act without actually losing overwatch. Which is nice. It does not mean they are always considered to be in overwatch, or that overwatch does not end when they actually use it.

How does that differ in practical terms from being free? Overwatch is a full round action and only lasts a single turn, you don't "maintain" it from round to round except by declaring new Overwatch actions each combat turn. If you can act normally while "maintaining" Overwatch, it is effectively a free attack. Declare Overwatch using a condition like "that horde over there moves any closer I'll fire a full auto burst at them" and then take your normal turn firing another full-auto burst at them. When they move on their action, they get shot. Obviously the Overwatch expires after that, but that isn't much of a downside. Next turn, declare a new Overwatch and act normally again. Saying that "It does not mean they are always considered to be in overwatch, or that overwatch does not end when they actually use it," just means that they need to bother to declare what general area they're watching each turn, and that they can't fire an arbitrary number of times in a turn. Those aren't very meaningful limitations- Sustained Suppression is really good and probably the strongest of the Chapter Attack Patterns.

LGD said:

How does that differ in practical terms from being free? Overwatch is a full round action and only lasts a single turn, you don't "maintain" it from round to round except by declaring new Overwatch actions each combat turn. If you can act normally while "maintaining" Overwatch, it is effectively a free attack. Declare Overwatch using a condition like "that horde over there moves any closer I'll fire a full auto burst at them" and then take your normal turn firing another full-auto burst at them. When they move on their action, they get shot. Obviously the Overwatch expires after that, but that isn't much of a downside. Next turn, declare a new Overwatch and act normally again. Saying that "It does not mean they are always considered to be in overwatch, or that overwatch does not end when they actually use it," just means that they need to bother to declare what general area they're watching each turn, and that they can't fire an arbitrary number of times in a turn. Those aren't very meaningful limitations- Sustained Suppression is really good and probably the strongest of the Chapter Attack Patterns.

I think his reading is as follows.

1. Activate Sustained Suppression

2. Declare Overwatch. This takes a Full Action and ends the turn.

3. Maintain Overwatch and make actions as normal.

4. Fire Overwatch burst. Overwatch ends.

5. Declare Overwatch. This takes a Full Action and ends the turn.

Re-reading the ability, it could be read that way. The ability does not say it makes declaring Overwatch free, just taking other actions while maintaining overwatch do not end the Overwatch. The Overwatch ability on 241 does not mentioning 'maintaining,' but does describe the effect ending for other actions. If the above is the correct usage, Sustained Suppression is pretty poor. You basically give the DA a double burst on the first turn of a defensive combat (where he can maintain a static killzone), but otherwise does nothing (you've essentially just delayed your previous turn. I guess it would give you the ability to Overwatch area A where enemies are expected, declare overwatch against a Hive Tyrant appearing, or whatever, while still shooting at some other enemies.

That reading puts it in the highly situational category instead of the probably-best-squad-ability category.