Shindulus said:

An example is Helbane's Raiders ACTION: When an opponent discards one or more cards from his hand, deal 1 damage to target unit.

Lets say the Caught the Scent is on the stack, with 2 more cards waiting to resolve beneath it. By your application of the Golden Rule, I could use Helbane's Raiders to interrupt the resolution of the stack and deal 1 damage before the other 2 cards resolve. You can't interrupt the stack with another Action while its resolving.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the intent of GoM was to have you use the ability as soon as it happens, but the way the card is currently worded, I don't think the rules support that interpretation.

You do not need to take another effect in example, you have the same reasoning for a destroying unit, effect of a card played during an action stack, exemple :

- Player A play a tactic

- Player B play a tactic for exemple Troll vomit

- Player A play a tactic

Following what you say, you can not play GoM

Following what I say, you can play GoM

Player A play Troll Vomit

Following what I say and what you say, you can play GoM

Really that's just stupid (I am not talking about you of course, but the way it leads to resolve such things).

And there is an easy way to counter your argument it is that in any case you are not playing you response action in response to "troll vomit" (or caught the send in your exemple) but in response of the resolution of troll vomit, this moment, by definition in the rules, is not a "legal action windows" for playing an action. (I agree that's quite hard to believe :-) ).

The only thing that allow to do that in the rules is this part :

Response Actions
Response actions are a subset of
actions that can only be triggered
during the stated trigger in the ability.
Each response action can be triggered
once per copy of the response action
and only once per stated trigger.

The first sentences of course, that first sentences that I say that it is redundant to the way you have to play the golden rule.

What you say is that when you start resolving a stack you have to resolve the entire stack.

According to this part of the rulesbook (page 15, Playing an Action “In Response” ) :

Players should just remember to always resolve
the final response first, and then work their way back
through the response chain to the original action.

What I say is that, this is just a rule , and the card text is in contradiction with the rules.

What I mean finally is that the way I play" response action" is just more natural and always following the rules, and at the moment any card with an response action which was leading to "problem" has been errated to be played in this "natural" way of playing those cards, AoK, GT all "at the begining of the turn".

Regardless to when a unit is destroyed you can use AoK.

And finally " response action " should not have been called action because any new trigger will potentially lead to such problemsn unless you use the rules as I am doing.

For our examples there is also the real way you have to play things :

You play your Hellbaine's raider in response to the resolution of caught the sent.

The resolution of caught the sent is a resolution of a stack of action of 1 element

The resolution of a stack of one action or 100 actions is always a resolution of a stack, as you play Hellbaine's raider in response of a resolution stack in which its trigger has been found you can use it.

But card as plague monk really bring us in the case before, because the trigger is not an element of the resolution stack.

Player has PM in game

- A play a spell card

- A use PM

That's ok

Player has PM in game

- A play a spell card

- B play a random tactic (as opponent has priority to play card in response)

- A cannot play PM, that's just crazy :-).

So each time a new trigger is find the problem will be the same.

I am not sure, if i understand all the things, you tried to explain.

You could use the action on Plague Monk after the stack resolves completly or after your opponent plays an action in response. It must be in the same action window, in which the trigger happens. Thats also true for the Helbane´s Raiders example. You have to wait until the complete stack resolves (included Caught the Scent), but then, you should be allowed to play the action on Helbane´s Raiders, if you have priority.

I thought, that Response Actions were actions, that could only be played in the action window after their trigger or in which their trigger happened. So, there would be no possibility for the action on Garden of Morr to be played, when Thyrus Gorman would be destroyed at the end of turn.

Feel free to correct me, if i am wrong.^^

Excuse my bad english, i hope, my explanation is understandable.

First of all there are some difference between plague monk and GoM cause of the wording :

Plague Monk

Destruction Only. Kingdom. ACTION: Whenever you play a Spell, look at the top two cards of any player's deck. Discard any number of those cards and place the rest back on top of the deck in any order.

Garden of Morr

This card gains 1 Power for each resource token on it.ACTION: When one or more units are destroyed, put a resource token on this card.

Helbane's Raiders

ACTION: When an opponent discards one or more cards from his hand, deal 1 damage to target unit.

When have I to play those 3 cards ?

GoM/HR must be played once an action that 'destroyed a unit/discard a card' as been resolved, so just after a stack of action including' destruction of unit/discard a card' has been resolved.

PM : must be played as soon as I play a card spell. So in response to this card.

But the "broad" way I use the golden rules for entropy in the example with thyrus make him feeling sad :

"When a unit is detroyed" is when a unit is destroyed with no restriction, as defined by the rules action windows are only "rules" and the card text is in contradiction with the rules you can use this action even at the end of the turn.

At the moment card using "when a unit is destroyed" trigger have been errated in this way (altar of khaine or even Glitering tower with some kind of equivalent wording and problem) because in addition to other thing there were problem between the fact that at the origin they were action, with a truigger that can happened outside "defined by the rule action window". So now you can use AoK at any time a unit is destroyed but you can not response to the altar of khaine with an action.

Shindulus said:

I can see we aren't going to convince each other that GoM can/can't create Action windows, and honestly its a pointless debate, since I agree with you that your way of playing is probably how the card was intended to work, and I think the card will be errata'ed (like all the others were) to basically play out the way you are saying.

Sorry as I write a lot to explain simple things, this is harder for me than in my natural language.

But there is for me on important thing about what you said (I agree, my way to play the golden rules at the end of the turn is "broad" :-) ), I really think the timing you play Hellbaine's or GoM during the resolution (so of course as you say you can not) and the timing I play them after the resolution of a stack are important.

I mean that I considered the resolution stack as an event where X card have been discarded, Y units have been distroyed, Z units have been healed....

From Lukas at FFG:

Q. When can Garden of Morr be activated? The trigger is "when one or more units is destroyed" but the effect is an Action, and so cannot always be used right after a card is destroyed. How long does this trigger window remain open?

A. It will be errata’d to be a "Forced" ability.