Hi, guys.

The following is a work in progress (as in: I haven't made my mind up finally yet, haven't thought through whether this is fully balanced with other chapter powers, etc) so please be kind. Thanks to ConstantineRoth for his Imperial Fists.

I'm cutting out all the background fluff, those who want to read it up will find the information I have been drawing on (as well as some creative license) here:

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Crimson_Fists

warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Crimson_Fists

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=369 (very good article)

Player Characters

Player characters of the Crimson Fists have no special restrictions on the
specialties that they may choose. They have the following bonuses to their stat
line: +5 Willpower, +5 Intelligence. This is to show that while the Crimson
Fists inherit the resoluteness of their Imperial Fists parent chapter, the
youthfulness of their founding lives on in them - and that this youthfulness
displays itself, among other things, in their willingness to face their own
failings and to learn from them (in contrast to the fake sense of pride of many
other chapters). Also, as with all Imperial Fist successors, the Crimson Fists
do not benefit from Betcher's Gland and Sus-an Membrane (see Black Templars).

Special Rule: Gain the Spartan Xeno-Hunter Talent (new). This Talent recognizes
the great many contribution the Crimson Fists have made in tactics and troops
to the formation of the Deathwatch as it is today. As a result, the Crimson Fists
start out with 15 Renown points in the Deathwatch. Almost all of them are leaning
towards the spartan end of things though and as such they get only to spend half
the allocated Requisition Points on a mission, unless they spend all of them on
one item only (Terminator plus armament may be considered a single item at GM's
discretion). They generally also do not flash any special chapter trappings.

Note: Leaders such as Pedro Kantor are an exception from the spartan rule, obviously. This does not go for the PCs.

Chapter Demeanou r: Duty-Bound - As a matter of duty and honour, the Crimson
Fists have been drilled to do what they are expected to do... even beyond what
is the high expectations of other Space Marine chapters. When they are ordered
to defend, their defending is exemplary. When ordered to hunt and exterminate
xenos, their sense of duty eventually turns them into some of the greatest
xeno-hunters. When ordered to exterminate another Marine chapter, they will do
so dutifully. Crimson Fists pursue a given assignment with conviction up and
above the normal call of duty, sometimes leading other, more unorthodox chapters
to call them the lapdogs of the High Lords of Terra. Most notably, their willingness
to engage in punitive action against fellow brothers raises red flags and suspicion
with every Dark Angel Marine a Crimson Fist will ever encounter.

For a Crimson Fist to not live up to one's duties is tantamount to loss of face and
honour, the greatest shame. They will do everything in their power to right the
consequences of previous errors, as it's the only way to regain their honour and
to live up to their duties.

Names :
01-07 Alguena
08-13 Benítez
14-21 Crassipes
22-29 Estrada
30-35 Fernandes
36-38 Gonzalez
39-43 Itzcuaxhotl
44-50 Licinus
51-53 Lopez
54-58 Marques
59-62 Peres
63-66 Ramírez
67-77 Robiedo
78-86 Scapula
87-93 Vespillo
94-00 Yacate

Past History :

01-14 His Emperor's Crusaders: While the Imperium spans most of the Galaxy, it's
worlds are thinly spread and opportunities for expansion are rife. Staying true
to your chapter's past, you have been part of a Crusade fighting the countless
numbers of Orks near Loki Sektor (probably even side-to-side with your Black
Templar gene-brothers) and claiming planets in the name of His Holiness.

15-28 Defenders of the Faith: You have been part of punitive action against one
or more non-Astartes organizations of the Imperium at the order of the
Inquisitition or the High Lords of Terra. The Emperor's justice was brought
swiftly and decisively on heretics and you have been executing orders without
mercy nor hesitation.

29-36 Deathwatchers: You have been part of a special tour of duty, one which
only the Crimson Fists do offer in such a form - deep specialization in fighting
various alien menaces, in your case mostly orks and minor races. Duty in the
venerable Deathwatch was only the next logical step for you.

37-56 Among the Stars: You have been patrolling the Loki and neighboring sectors
for years, protecting Imperial colonies from dangers unnumbered. The heroics of
you and your brothers go largely unrecognized outside of your chapter. Only your
fellow Crimson Fists know of the billions lives saved through your boarding
actions of foul xeno motherships.

57-64 The Darkest Duty: Your have been part of a calling most solemn and most
sombre - the purging of a fellow chapter of Space Marines declared Excommunicate
Traitoris. You have been fighting and killing brothers with a heart heavy of
sorrow, knowing that many other chapters will never fully understand the burdens
of this most dreaded form of service to Mankind.

65-84 Colony Defenders: You have been stationed on a lasting basis on an
Imperial world of your (the player's) choosing in Loki Sector. You and your
Battle-Brothers have been fine-tuning the system's defenses over and over again,
probably repelling one or two minor Ork incursions through skillful use of
ressources, catching the attention of your Chapter Master along the way.

85-92 Ultramarine Liaison: You have been assigned duty along-side the
Ultramarine chapter, exchanging with them information on how to meet the xeno
threat and learning from their experiences defeating the Tyranids. This select
position has made you a natural candidate for service in the Deathwatch.

93-00 Dragon Slayers: You are a denizen of the planet Blackwater, the prime
source of recruits for the Crimson Fists. You have been participating in the
'Rite of the Dragon' twice, killing a Barbed Dragon twice - a feat as unusual as
astounding. Having made your mark early on and eventually being inducted into
the ranks of the Space Marines, you have been chosen for the noble task of
representing the Crimson Fists within the Deathwatch.

Advances :
Command (400)
Command +10 (600)
Command +20 (600)
Tactics (any) (400)
Tactics (any) +10 (400)
Tactics (any) +20 (600)
*Deathwatch Training (400)
Duty unto Death (800)
Hatred (Orks) (300)
Hatred (any xeno race) (500)
Hunter of Aliens (500)
Last Man Standing (500) [Requires Nerves of Steel]
Nerves of Steel (500)
Talented (any one Skill) (800)

Explanation: Command and Tactics because they are the most Codex-compliant
version of the Imperial Fists. The talents have been built around
ConstantineRoth's Imperial Fists - with modifications. To bring out the CF's
unique status as xeno hunters some relevant talents have been added. Finally,
the Talented (any) Talent can be selected once for one skill of the player's
choosing. That represents the youthfulness of the CF and their eagerness to
learn new things (note that the actual skill might have to be bought expensively
with elite advances).

Psychic Powers :

From the Ultramarine List: Glory of the Emperor, Inspiring Word, War Cry, Word
of the Emperor (all unchanged)

Fist of the Imperium (1000 XP, requires WP 40+)
Action: Full
Opposed: Partially.
Range: 15m x PR
Sustained: Yes
Description: The Librarian makes a closing fist gesture towards his intended
target. The target will feel the crush of invisible forces all over him, causing
the victim 1D10 x PR damage. The target then makes its Willpower roll for the
opposed test. If the target fails to overcome the Librarians roll, it is as if
stunned for its next action (even if it can normally not be stunned) as it is
held and the Librarian can keep squeezing again in his next action. Make an
opposed test with no chance for Psychic Phenomena on subsequent turns of the
Librarian.

Paragon (Crimson Fist version) (500 XP)
Action: Full
Opposed: No.
Range: 5m x PR
Sustained: Yes.
This power bestows deep-seated faith and a sense of duty in the lesser man. All
non-Astartes within Range are potentially affected - all that it takes is a
willing recipient. People with a strong sense of honour or duty or those who are
deeply pious believers in the Emperor will be automatically affected. Every
non-Astartes NPC within range will or will not resist according to GM
discretion. Those who resist are unaffected, those who open up will be bestowed
with the Duty Unto Death talent and will beyond that do everything they consider
necessary to serve the Imperium, even at the cost of their own life. Details
with regards to that are again left at the GM's discretion.

Chapter Attack Pattern

Xeno Sweep
Action: Full Action
Cost: 2
Sustained: Yes.
Effects: The Crimson Fists have met many xeno threats and have developed many
insights on how to fight them. A Battle-Brother may direct the fire of others in
support range to maximum effectiveness. Doing so does cost this Marine the full
turn while his brothers can blast away.When fighting xeno hordes, the hordes
cannot use traits beneficial to them and all attacks count as if an additional
hit has been scored. Against individual xenos, the brothers' attacks get a
flat-out +4 damage increase as their fire is being directed for maximum damage.
Improvement: At Rank 4 another additional hit is scored against hordes and
against individual xenos the damage bonus raises to +7.

Chapter Defensive Stance

Crimson Fist's Last Stand
Action: Free Action
Cost: 1
Sustained: No.
Effects: This stance can only be called if those eligible to join have lost more than
half of their combined wound points. Also, support range for this stance is halved,
centering around the team leader (or his successor which must me appointed immediately
if necessary). Except for mind-control and possession, brothers in this formation
cannot be made to surrender or leave the stand involuntarily. In melee combat, enemies
never get the outnumbering bonuses and hordes don't get beneficial traits either. The
Battle-Brother and all those in support range gain the Duty Unto Death trait. Also,
don't forget that fallen brothers are regular used for cover, giving AP 16.

Note: Yes, both abilities negate hordes special abilities. Some people might not like it,
thinking the abilities should not overlap. Given the Crimson Fists frequent encounters
with Orks and other, lesser races fighting in hordes, I thought it was not inappropriate.

Chapter Trappings : None. Crimson Fists are generally (there are exceptions among the leadership)
spartan fighters and avoid such trappings.

Relics :
Crimson Power Fist. These are simply master-crafted power fists which allow the
user to roll twice for damage (including Righteous Fury) and choose the better of results.

Primarch's Curse : To be done. Probably the same as the Imperial Fists'.

Alex

Alex,

I like your write up for the Crimson Fists. As a Crimson Fists 40k player, of course I want them to be great...

Feedback:

+5 Willpower, Definately! +5 Intelligence, ok (maybe player's choice)

I am not sure if I like you Spartan Xenos Hunter rule. I understand you idea though, not a great deal of valuable adtifacts to take to war after the destruction of Rynn's World. Using on 1/2 of the requisition points hurts. What about using only 2/3 or 3/4 of you requisition points? Probably need to playtest it.

Love Duty-bound!

Love the past histories!

I looked at the advances and wanted to alter them a little bit. I checked the other chapter advances in the book and the imperial Fists write up. here is what I was thinking:

Command (400), +10 (400), +20 (400)

Tactics(any) (400), +10 (400), +20 (400)

Deathwatch Training (400)

Duty unto Death (800)

Hatred(orks) (300)

Hatred (any other xenos) (500)

Hunter of Aliens(500)

Nerves of Steel (500)

Last Man Standing (500)

Talented (any two skills) (800)

Peer (any) (500)

True Grit (500)

Die Hard (500)

Psyker Powers:

I prefer the Ultramarines version of Paragon

I don't know that much about the formations yet so I don't feel like and can respond.

Primarch's Curse:

I am sure...maybe something to reflect how stubborn they are.

Level 1: Ultramarines The Emperor's Finest

Level 2: Modified version of Storm Wardens Level 3 Honor & Blood...A Crimson Fist Battle Brother will not leae the field until his mission is complete, especially if he is defending innocents or hunting xenos. He must make a hard (-20) Willpower test to disengage, or leave the field unless he specially knows leaving will bwtter achieve a higher goal.

Level 3: Something to simulate Kantor's 40k ability...How about the actual Storm wardens Level 3: Honor & Blood

I really like your write up. Please see this response as excitement, not anything negative.

Thank you fuelling my desire,

Jim

I didn't see it there, but how about adding a modification of the Black Templar's Solo Ability Righteous Zeal and calling it "Ork Hunter" or something like that. All the same effects as RZ but only when dealing with orkoids.

I figure the same thing applies to the Scythes of the Emperor but with Tyranids. A nice solo ability that allows for some good deviations depending on chapters.

E

It was a first write-up, I will admit and I haven't thought it all through in its entirety.

A couple of remarks:

- I considered +5 WP and +5 to a selection of player's choice but somehow I felt it should be slightly different the Imperial Fists.

- As for the Spartan Fighter that is a bit of creative license and yes it would definitely need play-testing. But it should hurt a bit too after all you don't want the other players to be too jealous because the Crimsonite can take all the good stuff early on. The point is that he should be able to take that power fist but then that's it. But it definitely needs play testing, also one could argue that for simplicity's sake the CF always can requisition stuff as if they were a full rank higher.

- Past Histories, I like The Darkest Duty the most obviously.

- Every Space Marine already has True Grit. I made Tactics and Command more expensive because the CF should come after the Ultras. The Ultras specialize in that regard and while the CF are the IF successors who adopted the Codex the most, they are no match for the Ultras in that regard. Peer... I am not so sure. Given the punitive actions by the CF, Enemy talent might be more appropriate. What do you think?

- Paragon: this another instance of what I consider the Ultramarines domain. I didn't want to infringe upon that. They are the undisputed leadership specialists. So I wanted to give that a tweak in the sense of the CF being paragons wrt a die-hard, never give up attitude to others.

- Primarch's Curse... I have to think it through some time. And compare with the Imperial Fists curse since it's the same primarch.

- Solo Mode ability: I forgot that one actually. Yes, RZ is a consideration. Otoh, it might be worth considering sth totally different in order to make each chapter stand out more from each other, if you know what I mean.

Today I'll be playing some Rogue Trader but in the next few days, I'll be making some changes. Thanks for the input everyone, let's hope FFG won't overlook this chapter's contributions to the Deathwatch and include them in Rites Of Battle. They are the DW you are going to encounter most frequently after all.

Alex

I would say that even with the CF's being responsible for the eradication of certain other SM chapters, that would not cause an Enemy. Who would side with the fallen that would pose a threat to the CF's? I like the DA radar pinging when a CF is around though, very fluffy.

Perhaps the RZ-Orks is not the most appropriate Solo Mode ability for a CF SM due to them being more level headed than the BT's, and even the IF's I might argue. I think maybe something to go along with the spartan-esque nature of the chapter?

Speaking of which, I think that allowing them to requisition one item as if they were one rank higher might simplify it, or just make it that assault marines can get a power fist instead of the chainsword might be feasible.

Gonna have to disagree with you about the number of CF in DW. Sure there are a lot of them, but what about the 40 SofE that were sent? Or has that not happened yet? I need to figure out the timelines for that one. Crimson Fists are awesome!

E

ejacobs said:

Yeah but I have with a little creative license included a past history where the CF take part in other internal purges. Perhaps where SoB might not be at hand or sth like that. After all the CF are the "lapdogs" of the Inquisition and the High Lords of Terra. Anyway it's just a consideration.

If you can think of a Solo Mode ability, feel free to post it. I just think another anti-xenos ability might be over the top. Or you give them a bonus fighting xenos as a solo mode ability and give them an altogether different squad mode attack pattern.

As for requisition - a full rank simplifies it yes. But consider how many missions it would take another marine to acquire 20 renown points. That's a lot.

Numbers of CF in DW? Let me quote from DW, page 309: "There are some particular Chapters (the Crimson Fists and the Mantis Warriors amongst them) who make it a point of pride to send many of their Space Marines to serve with the Deathwatch." (Btw, FFG adopted here stuff from the controversial author CS Goto.)

Add to that the text from 40K wiki: "In the novel Deathwatch by C.S. Goto, Captain Octavius, an Imperial Fist seconded to the Deathwatch; comments that no other Chapter has provided as many Deathwatch marines as the Crimson Fists. This and other cannon sources seem to suggest that the Crimson Fists are amoung the most highly regarded Xenos Fighters in the Imperium."

I have been trying to model that without giving members of other chapters the feeling that they are lesser DW marines. You wouldn't want that. That's why I have come up with that higher renown stat (more recognition in the DW) counter-balanced by the self-imposed spartan fighter limitation thingie.

And it's actually this quote from page 309 which is going to make me be very disappointed if the CF were not to be included should FFG ever publish a second set of official chapters.

Alex

Thinking more about the Solo ability, I agree with you that converting RZ to an ork specific version for the Crimson Fists doesn't fit. They were almost wiped out, but it wasn't solely an ork caused event(Assassins!). Can't think of anything off the top of my head right now, but I still stand by the RZ Tyranid SMA for Scythes though, but that is off topic.

I have read the lapdogs of the Inquisition bit as well, but I think that Enemy seems too heavy handed a penalty for the player; who would the enemy(ies) be? Though admittedly I don't have my rulebook in front of me, I think something that makes it difficult for members of other non-codex chapters to trust the CF's might be appropriate in that regard; perhaps a lowering of squad cohesion by 1 pt per non codex chapter sm in the kill-team? Might seem like a lot but I think it gives the sense that codex chapters appreciate the notion that sometimes tough decisions must be made for the betterment of humanity, while non-codex sm's would chaff at being teamed up with someone who belongs to a chapter that "seems" to so easily be ready to destroy deviancy in their brothers.

I don't have any further ideas about solving the Spartan ability, maybe they have the option of taking the power fist from the beginning, and they can then purchase better versions for less as they advance in rank? Then give them an aversion to lots of add-ons to armour and equipment (spartan style) even though they might gain the requisition and renown to acquire it? It is a tricky decision.

E

Great job Alex,

I look forward to seeing an update. I want to use it.

Thanks, Jim

Just remembered while reading the other thread, that i forgott to look through that one For the Crimson Fists Pricharch Curse i would suggest a small mix of Imperial Fists masochistic tendencies with the Crimson Fists reported tenacity despite the odds.

Don't see an Edit button (is there one?), therefore I'm posting a full updated version all over again (changes and explanation to follow):

Hi, guys.

The following is a work in progress (as in: I haven't made my mind up finally yet, haven't thought through whether this is fully balanced with other chapter powers, etc) so please be kind. Thanks to ConstantineRoth for his Imperial Fists.

I'm cutting out all the background fluff, those who want to read it up will find the information I have been drawing on (as well as some creative license) here:

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Crimson_Fists

warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Crimson_Fists

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=369 (very good article)

Player Characters

Player characters of the Crimson Fists have no special restrictions on the
specialties that they may choose. They have the following bonuses to their stat
line: +5 Willpower, +5 to any one *other* characteristic of the player's
choosing. This is to show that while the Crimson Fists inherit the resoluteness
of their Imperial Fists parent chapter, they have youthful and remarkably
self-critical chapter which allows them to learn from a wider range of fields
than usual. As such they fit in between the more rigid Imperial Fists parent
chapter and the Ultramarines whose Codex Astartes they have chosen to adopt
early on. Also, as with all Imperial Fist successors, the Crimson Fists
do not benefit from Betcher's Gland and Sus-an Membrane (see Black Templars).

Special Rule: Gain the Spartan Xeno-Hunter Talent (new). This Talent recognizes
the great many contribution the Crimson Fists have made in tactics and troops
to the formation of the Deathwatch as it is today. As a result, the Crimson Fists
start out with 15 Renown points in the Deathwatch. Almost all of them are leaning
towards the spartan end of things though and as such they get only to spend half
the allocated Requisition Points on a mission, unless they spend all of them on
one item only (Terminator plus armament may be considered a single item at GM's
discretion). They generally also do not flash any special chapter trappings.

Note: Leaders such as Pedro Kantor are an exception from the spartan rule, obviously. This does not go for the PCs.

Chapter Demeanour: Duty-Bound - As a matter of duty and honour, the Crimson
Fists have been drilled to do what they are expected to do... even beyond what
is the high expectations of other Space Marine chapters. When they are ordered
to defend, their defending is exemplary. When ordered to hunt and exterminate
xenos, their sense of duty eventually turns them into some of the greatest
xeno-hunters. When ordered to exterminate another Marine chapter, they will do
so dutifully. Crimson Fists pursue a given assignment with conviction up and
above the normal call of duty, sometimes leading other, more unorthodox chapters
to call them the lapdogs of the High Lords of Terra. Most notably, their willingness
to engage in punitive action against fellow brothers raises red flags and suspicion
with every Dark Angel Marine a Crimson Fist will ever encounter.

For a Crimson Fist to not live up to one's duties is tantamount to loss of face and
honour, the greatest shame. They will do everything in their power to right the
consequences of previous errors, as it's the only way to regain their honour and
to live up to their duties.

Names:
01-06 Alguena
07-09 Baradan
10-14 Benítez
15-20 Contrada
21-27 Crassipes
28-34 Estrada
35-38 Fernandes
39-40 Gonzalez
41-44 Itzcuaxhotl
45-50 Licinus
51-52 Lopez
53-56 Marques
57-59 Peres
60-62 Ramírez
63-72 Robiedo
73-80 Scapula
81-84 Ulrich
85-88 Tamrik
89-94 Vespillo
95-00 Yacate

Past History:

01-14 His Emperor's Crusaders: While the Imperium spans most of the Galaxy, it's
worlds are thinly spread and opportunities for expansion are rife. Staying true
to your chapter's past, you have been part of a Crusade fighting the countless
numbers of Orks near Loki Sektor (probably even side-to-side with your Black
Templar gene-brothers) and claiming planets in the name of His Holiness.

15-28 Defenders of the Faith: You have been part of punitive action against one
or more non-Astartes organizations of the Imperium at the order of the
Inquisitition or the High Lords of Terra. The Emperor's justice was brought
swiftly and decisively on heretics and you have been executing orders without
mercy nor hesitation.

29-36 Deathwatchers: You have been part of a special tour of duty, one which
only the Crimson Fists do offer in such a form - deep specialization in fighting
various alien menaces, in your case mostly orks and minor races. Duty in the
venerable Deathwatch was only the next logical step for you.

37-56 Among the Stars: You have been patrolling the Loki and neighboring sectors
for years, protecting Imperial colonies from dangers unnumbered. The heroics of
you and your brothers go largely unrecognized outside of your chapter. Only your
fellow Crimson Fists know of the billions lives saved through your boarding
actions of foul xeno motherships.

57-64 The Darkest Duty: Your have been part of a calling most solemn and most
sombre - the purging of a fellow chapter of Space Marines declared Excommunicate
Traitoris. You have been fighting and killing brothers with a heart heavy of
sorrow, knowing that many other chapters will never fully understand the burdens
of this most dreaded form of service to Mankind.

65-84 Colony Defenders: You have been stationed on a lasting basis on an
Imperial world of your (the player's) choosing in Loki Sector. You and your
Battle-Brothers have been fine-tuning the system's defenses over and over again,
probably repelling one or two minor Ork incursions through skillful use of
ressources, catching the attention of your Chapter Master along the way.

85-92 Ultramarine Liaison: You have been assigned duty along-side the
Ultramarine chapter, exchanging with them information on how to meet the xeno
threat and learning from their experiences defeating the Tyranids. This select
position has made you a natural candidate for service in the Deathwatch.

93-00 Dragon Slayers: You are a denizen of the planet Blackwater, the prime
source of recruits for the Crimson Fists. You have been participating in the
'Rite of the Dragon' twice, killing a Barbed Dragon twice - a feat as unusual as
astounding. Having made your mark early on and eventually being inducted into
the ranks of the Space Marines, you have been chosen for the noble task of
representing the Crimson Fists within the Deathwatch.

Advances:
Command (400)
Command +10 (600)
Command +20 (600)
Tactics (any) (400)
Tactics (any) +10 (400)
Tactics (any) +20 (600)
*Deathwatch Training (400)
Duty unto Death (800)
Hatred (Orks) (300)
Hatred (any xeno race) (500)
Hunter of Aliens (500)
Last Man Standing (500) [Requires Nerves of Steel]
Nerves of Steel (500)
Talented (any one Skill) (800)

Explanation: Command and Tactics because they are the most Codex-compliant
version of the Imperial Fists. The talents have been built around
ConstantineRoth's Imperial Fists - with modifications. To bring out the CF's
unique status as xeno hunters some relevant talents have been added. Finally,
the Talented (any) Talent can be selected once for one skill of the player's
choosing. That represents the youthfulness of the CF and their eagerness to
learn new things (note that the actual skill might have to be bought expensively
with elite advances).

Psychic Powers:

From the Ultramarine List: Glory of the Emperor, Inspiring Word, War Cry, Word
of the Emperor (all unchanged)

Fist of the Imperium (1000 XP, requires WP 40+)
Action: Full
Opposed: Partially.
Range: 15m x PR
Sustained: Yes
Description: The Librarian makes a closing fist gesture towards his intended
target. The target will feel the crush of invisible forces all over him, causing
the victim 1D10 x PR damage. The target then makes its Willpower roll for the
opposed test. If the target fails to overcome the Librarians roll, it is as if
stunned for its next action (even if it can normally not be stunned) as it is
held and the Librarian can keep squeezing again in his next action. Make an
opposed test with no chance for Psychic Phenomena on subsequent turns of the
Librarian.

Paragon (Crimson Fist version) (500 XP)
Action: Full
Opposed: No.
Range: 5m x PR
Sustained: Yes.
This power bestows deep-seated faith and a sense of duty in the lesser man. All
non-Astartes within Range are potentially affected - all that it takes is a
willing recipient. People with a strong sense of honour or duty or those who are
deeply pious believers in the Emperor will be automatically affected. Every
non-Astartes NPC within range will or will not resist according to GM
discretion. Those who resist are unaffected, those who open up will be bestowed
with the Duty Unto Death talent and will beyond that do everything they consider
necessary to serve the Imperium, even at the cost of their own life. Details
with regards to that are again left at the GM's discretion.

Solo Mode Ability

Unstoppable Warrior
Required Rank: 1

Effects: Though not quite as tough as Captain Cortez, a Crimson Fist can be
remarkably difficult to put out of action nonetheless. While in Unstoppable
Warrior mode, the Battle-Brother can shrug off the effects of any *one*
non-lethal attack. That includes wound loss, bleeding, stun, fatigue, as well as
other effects. Amputating Critical Hits instead merely temporarily disable the
limb ("It's only a flesh wound.") and even that condition can be removed
automatically by the application of First Aid - taking about 5 to 10 minutes of
game time. The same goes for hits that would otherwise cause the loss of an eye,
etc. Only hits that would do permanent damage get thus converted into a
temporary handicap. Hits that cause temporary effects get ignored entirely. Once
the Crimson Fist has made use of this ability to ignore one wound he must stay
in Unstoppable Warrior Solo Mode, as he and his body are concentrating on
fighting off any effects of the wound, like internal bleedings or internal
damage, etc. This ability has no effects on poisons and diseases.

Chapter Attack Pattern

Xeno Sweep
Action: Full Action
Cost: 2
Sustained: Yes.
Effects: The Crimson Fists have met many xeno threats and have developed many
insights on how to fight them. A Battle-Brother may direct the fire of others in
support range to maximum effectiveness. Doing so does cost this Marine the full
turn while his brothers can blast away.When fighting xeno hordes, the hordes
cannot use traits beneficial to them and all attacks (not hits) count as if an
additional hit has been scored. Against individual xenos, the brothers' attacks
get a flat-out +2 damage increase as their fire is being directed for maximum
damage. Improvement: At Rank 4 another additional hit is scored against hordes
and against individual xenos the damage bonus raises to +4.

Chapter Defensive Stance

Crimson Fist's Last Stand
Action: Free Action
Cost: 1
Sustained: No.
Effects: This stance can only be called if those eligible to join have lost more than
half of their combined wound points. Also, support range for this stance is halved,
centering around the team leader (or his successor which must me appointed immediately
if necessary). Except for mind-control and possession, brothers in this formation
cannot be made to surrender or leave the stand involuntarily. In melee combat, enemies
never get the outnumbering bonuses and hordes don't get beneficial traits either. The
Battle-Brother and all those in support range gain the Duty Unto Death trait. Also,
don't forget that fallen brothers are regular used for cover, giving AP 16.

Note: Yes, both abilities negate hordes special abilities. Some people might not like it,
thinking the abilities should not overlap. Given the Crimson Fists frequent encounters
with Orks and other, lesser races fighting in hordes, I thought it was not inappropriate.

Chapter Trappings: None. Crimson Fists are generally (there are exceptions among the leadership)
spartan fighters and avoid such trappings.

Relics:
Crimson Power Fist. These are simply master-crafted power fists which allow the
user to roll twice for damage (including Righteous Fury) and choose the better of results.

Primarch's Curse:

Level 1 ( Fists' Tongue ): The primarch Rogal Dorn was famed for his truthfulness,
never telling a lie to aid his cause. And as they say: as the father so the sons -
the Battle-Brother will refrain from using dishonesty to gain an advantage and
will vocally oppose any attempts of other Adeptus Astartes resorting to such
"lowly, unworthy tactics".
Level 2 ( Fists' Heart ): The Battle-Brother's sense of honour is starting to take
over. Not merely focussed on doing his duty, he cannot let anything pass by that
just could considered to be a slight of him, his honour, his chapter, his
primarch or the Emperor pass unless he makes a Challenging (+0) Willpower test,
modified by GM's discretion. Unlike regular Crimson Fists, the Battle-Brother
doesn't deal with criticism too well anymore.
Level 3 ( Fists' Mind ): The Primarch's stubbornness and the zealotry of his
later years start to take over the Marine, aggrivating the impact of Fists's
Tongue and Fist's Pride. He will no longer tolerate any lies anymore, flying
into a rage (stopping short of physical violence against brothers though) and
once he feels his honour being violated, he must have it restored (not stopping
short of trading fisticuffs with fellow Brothers). Also once he has committed
himself to any cause, he takes it as a matter of honour to see it through and it
will take a Very Hard (-30) Willpower Test to experience a change of mind. This
explicitly includes aborting a battle even though it might be wise to do so.

Alex

Changes made:

- changed characteristic bonuses: I originally came up with those, ConstantineRoth later came up with the same for the IF (no problem). I recommend changing IF characteristics to +5 T and +5 WP though (to underline the strong defensive nature of the IF).

- added names so that there are now 20 of them which should be enough.

- I nerfed Xeno Sweep. On second thought, it meant that theoretically every member of the kill-team gets this damage bonus with a CF Tactical which can amount to lots and lots of damage. Thus I had to decrease the damage bonus. As with most numbers, this needs play-testing to make it balanced.

- I added the Solo Mode ability which is based on Captain Cortez, just to a much lesser degree. Consider it the rugged nature of Dorn living on.

- I also added the Primarch's curse which has been the most difficult part. First of all, it doesn't really seem to be always some genetic defect passed down if you take a look at the DW chapters. Secondly, you don't want all the insanities to be too similar between chapters (pride, hatred, etc). Thirdly, with many chapters it will be hard to pinpoint any specifics for them, thus you'll likely end up drawing on parent chapter defects. However I felt that the Black Templar's curse was not appropriate for the CF.

- I kept the Spartan Warrior special rule as it is for now. As its a campaign level (long-term) ability it would need the feedback of someone who has ran quite a few scenarios under this rule to get proper balance. As with the Attack pattern (which does not benefit the initiator himself) I have tried to make the CF a bit of being special within the Deathwatch but not so special that the other chapters feel slighted. Proper balance is difficult without play-testing though.

Now responding to posters here:

- Masochistic tendencies... I don't know... the Bolter and Chainsword article reads: "While just as noble and dedicated as the Imperial Fists the Crimson Fists appear to have mastered the impulse towards self inflicted punishment and penance." I am not altogether happy about the primarch's curse though, as mentioned above.

- Enemies: don't forget what later happened at Rynn's world and that Assassins are rumoured to have caused the fall of the Arx Tyrannus. I haven't added it to the advances yet but it doesn't seem to be completely far-fetched at least.

- As mentioned above I'm keeping the Spartan ability as it is for now; it's supposed to convey the special recognition of the CF for contributing so prominently to the Deathwatch.

I also have a question: in which year were the Soul Drinkers excommunicated? I'm considering a past history entry involving them.

Please post any thoughts and any feedback. Any feedback/criticism is welcome.

Alex

Some suggestions for the Primarchs Curse:

Dorn was very extreme in his reverance of the Emperor, not as bad as Lorgar, but very over the top. This reflects best in the Black Templars, but Crimsons fists, while levelheaded still constantly and actively sought out emperors enemies for 9000 years

In his Name (Level 1)

Something reflecting the outgoing crusading character of the chapter in the first 9 millenia of its existence, bringing the fight to the enemies, insted of waiting for them to act

His wrath made manifest (Level 2)

Something about retribution and never forgetting slights, very reflective of the chapters nature in its retirbutive vengeance against the orks and its resolute actions on behalf of the Inquisition

Never retreat, never surrender (Level 3)

Something about not backing down from a fight, holding ground against overwhelming odds and so on

tkis said:

Yeah, you're onto something there. Something about punishing others (mostly xenos but also other enemies) could be read into Crimson Fists' history... even if it has never been sth that has been stated as such or even pronounced before. It would fit though.

Alex

I feel the Primarch's Curse is a little much. Being a CF Player on the TT I have always understood the chapter to be level headed and yet the Primarch's curse seems to strongly deviate from that.

Maybe instead they are stubborn (and grow more so with time) in that they might get stuck on one idea and refuse to change plans or in some cases even hear out other's ideas. Kind of like, "This is the way we always fight XXX. It works just fine. Your idea will probably just fail and get brothers killed."

I love what you're doing but I think the Spartan thing has to go or be made less oppressive.

Only 50% of your requisition is a big deal, as even more so than talent/ranks, what really makes or break the power level of a given Marines is the gear he has.

The 15 Req bonus is... weird.

As a newly started character, it means nothing - you need 20 to get anything good, so until you reach 20, you're just a guy who gets shafted by 50% on everything.

And while you will be the one to hit the new 'Renown Rank' first, it's a fleeting advantage as other will catch up and than you're back to being the guy who gets shafted by 50% on everything.

Furthermore, for long lasting campaign or 'high level campaign'... well, once the group reach Hero status, the 15 points stop mattered and you're back to being the guy who gets shafted by 50% on everything. For the rest of your career. Bleh.

So yeah, the punishement is incredibly harsh for a very very small benefit that will become less and less important as the game advance.

You're also basically pushing the CF into using Terminator armor... as soon as a CF is Famed and get a mission with 100 req+ (probably fairly common at that level of play) he might as well take a Terminator Armor and deck it out because if he doesn't, he lose 50% of his Requisition. From a fluff point of view, Crimson Fists are mainly known for their Sternguard (which your rule heavily discourage, who can afford to take a Master Crafted Combi-Weapon and a bunch of special Ammo with a 50% req tax?) not their Terminators, so I'm not sure that really fits.

Tarkand said:

There can always be a debate about whether it should be 50% or 75% or 2/3. It just needs to be properly balanced with whatever bonus to Renown you get in order to make non-CF not rile against it. As I said, the purpose is to convey the recognition for the special contribution to the DW in tangible, hard game terms - while trying to avoid making the chapter much better than others.

As with the 50%, I am not married to the +15 either. The thinking here behind it is that +15 is a head-start of about 3 to 5 missions. That's a lot. After 1 or 2 missions you will be able to acquire stuff that the others can't - that might lead to envy without counter-balance. 3 to 5 missions later the others will be able to get the same stuff but then 1 or 2 missions later you unlock new stuff for yourself - that is a good boon. So while giving CF a full renown rank would make things much easier, I fear this might be seen as boosting one's own favourite chapter too much. As such I'm preferring here to err on the side of caution in my first (and second) build.

As for not having any benefit on the first 1 or 2 missions, I'm fine with it. All the more a CF player can enjoy the benefits after the draught. Basically I like the idea of being caught between having not much beyond basic loadout and having one special-item.

The hero thing, yeah, you have a point. One might amend the special rule by stating that after reaching hero level (with the +15 included) the spartan part (the 50% clause) is waived. This would, quite frankly, fit with Pedro Kantor's loadout which isn't really spartan. Another option is exclude special munitions from the rule. Or perhaps make the one item rule refer to one item including all kinds of upgrades, ammo, etc.

But since is a special rule which is supposed to be self-balancing (eventually) anybody can easily leave that one aside. Since this rule is solely based on creative license I figured to begin with that some people who like the CF don't see them as spartan fighters at all.

I actually would like to hear more people's feedback on this and the Primarch's Curse before I make any updates. As for the Curse, I think it needs a theme. Right now I have two themes on my mind - blind obedience (because it's an "insane" exaggeration of the chapter demeanour, similar to what the DA have) or punishment (of others, which is more fitting for 40K Space marines; it would also fit with the Imperial Fits who are more about self-punishment). Can the two merged to an altogether new theme? Not made my mind up yet.

Like I said, I'm enjoying all kinds of feedback, especially critical one - if it is brought forth respectfully. Blast away. :-)

Tarkand has made at least one good point here, if not more.

Alex

As a fan of the Crimson Fist ( Here's my army , yes, it's a french forum, but you can see the pictures , altho some of the links are starting to wear off...), I obviously have a vested interest in them.

I don't know that Spartan does fit to be honest... again, the CF are known for their Sternguards, who are the blingest of all the bling Marine out there. I don't really have anything against it either tho, it's definitly one way to see them.

The Primarch curse is great. I'd personally beef up the Crimson Power Fist a bit... maybe make it 'unbalanced' instead of Unwieldy or something to that effect, not that big of a deal, but right now it's really just a Chain Fist that can be used when not in Power Armor (And as I said before, with your 50% Req penalty, all CF who can afford a Relic anyway will be in Terminator Armor regardless, so they may as well take a Chain Fist, it's cheaper... another con for the Req penalty, it makes their relic 'useless').

I actually like everything you did, I'd personally take them as is and - as you suggested - just remove the Req/Spartan thing altogether. I'm not sure it really add much to the character, it's hard to balance and really just throw in a 'metagaming' concept.

Tarkand said:

Not quite; i have to say. They are known for Sternguards only in the latest edition of 40K and to be precise their sternguards aren't special at all. "They are only special" when the chapter master himself gives them his orders. But your point is fair though. CF (house) rules on this forum should be based on the latest 40k edition.

Tarkand said:

In a sense all Deathwatch Marines are like Sternguards (and more) because they have access to all the ammo. An alternative would be to hand out free special ammo to the Crimson Fist if you are thus inclined. If your CF would have free access to that, they would be more like sternguards. You might want to consider that special rule. You'd probably might want to counter-balance though. Or leave all special rules aside and use them as is. You'd need to make up some chapter trappings though.

Alex

Alex,

I like what you have done! I understand that the Primarch's Curse is difficult. The only change I might make is for Level 2: I may say that the marine is also very critical of himself. If someone else judges him, he may take it on rather than just be insulted.

I really like the flavor of the xenos-hunter rule. I may alter it a bit. Perhaps allowing more than 1/2 points when requisitioning weapons enhancements, and the like. I may also lower the cots of certain wargear, but that could be unbalancing.

Cool solo and squad abilities. I still love Duty-Bound!

I may still use the Ultramarines Paragon ability. I know that you want to highlight the Ultraarines as the model for leadership. I see the Ultramarines powers as, sort of, vanilla marine abilities...?(guess I may not be convinced, myself).

I would like trappings, they just add a bit of flavor. No need to make new ones, just use some from other chapters. Perhaps, the Imperial Fist Purity Seals and/or the Ultramarines Cingulum.

Thanks for your Outstanding Work,

Jim

I'd like to hear some feedback on the below psy power before including it in an update. It's based on a CF librarian in Crimson Tears. Please give any feedback on whether this is too powerful or not useful at all, whether it's balanced or if there are any rule gaps or if there is any lack of clarity:

Tendrils of the Warp (2000 XP, requires Rank 5, WP 50+)
Action: Full
Opposed: No.
Range: 5m x PR
Sustained: Yes
The librarian extends his arm towards the target area and from his hands shadowy
tendrils flow forth threatening to ensnare every enemy in an area with a radius
of PR in meters. Every round in which this power is sustained, the librarian can
give his tendrils PR times orders. Each order can be selected from the below
list:
1) Move center of area of effect by PR meters. Can only be selected once per
round.
2) Grapple. Make a grapple attack with a strength of the librarians WP and skill
of WP + 5xPR or make a Grapple Controller action, including the disarmament of
grappled opponents. The tendrils have a size of enormous to monumental,
depending on the size of area of effect for this purpose.
3) Blind enemy. This is a WP + 5xPR attack which can be dodged. If the attack
strikes the enemy is blinded until he makes a successful escape attempt which
takes a full action and a successful dodge roll. If successful, the escapee
still has his reactions left. Dark Sight does not help.
4) Move a stolen piece of gear by PR meters within the radius of effect. Can
only be selected once per round for a given piece of gear.
Tendrils can be cut off easily to free people or snatched items as they don't
try to evade attacks, however it takes a force weapon or warp-based attack (such
as psy powers) to cut off a tendril. Each successful attack negates a grapple or
blind or frees an item from the tendrils' grasp.
Furthermore this psy power requires the full concentration so that the librarian
can do nothing else but direct the tendrils and take reactions while he sustains
it.

Thoughts?

Alex

New version of Primarch's Curse, feedback is invited:

Defend The Legacy

The legacy of the Primarch Rogal Dorn is upheld vigorously by all the Imperial
Fists' successors and the Crimson Fists are no exception. But experiencing too
many of the horrors of the galaxy can lead even the level-headed Crimson Fists
down a dangerous path of excess. The humbleness of Dorn forgotten, a false sense
of pride and self-righeousness starts to affect those Battle-Brothers who become
gradually more and more obsessed with upholding the tradition of the Primarch,
the Emperor and the Chapter itself.

Level 1 (Fists' Tongue): The Primarch Rogal Dorn was famed for his truthfulness,
never telling a lie to aid his cause. And as the father so the sons of Dorn must
refrain from using dishonesty to gain an advantage - thus the Battle-Brother
will not only not resort to such deception but also vocally oppose any attempts
of other Adeptus Astartes resorting to such "lowly, unworthy tactics".
In addition to that, the Crimson Fist must loudly invoke the legacy of the
Primarch, the Emperor, the Chapter or his predecessors (player's choice, should
vary though) at the first available opportunity in combat. If he forgets to do
so, he will realize that on his following turn and must immediately make up for
his failings but not without attacking with -10 for the remainder of the
encounter due to distracting thoughts of shame filling his mind.

Level 2 (Fists' Heart): At this stage the false sense of pride has spread from
only affecting the outward behaviour of the Battle-Brother to infecting his
feelings within. Thus afflicted he cannot let anything pass by that just could
be considered to be a slight of him, his honour, his chapter, his Primarch or
the Emperor (stopping short of violence though) unless he makes a Challenging
(+0) Willpower test, modified by GM's discretion. Unlike regular Crimson Fists,
the Battle-Brother doesn't deal with criticism too well anymore.

Furthermore, no longer can he tolerate failure on his part as it would be a
stain on the legacy of Dorn that had to be purged. In such an instance, the
Battle-Brother will go to great lengths to try to correct things that have gone
wrong, seeking for redemption. In game terms it means that failure constitutes a
slight of honour by fate itself and the above rule about slight of honour
applies to it too - with the effect being that the Battle-Brother must seek
redemption if he does not succeed the Willpower test. That means he will even
try to save people who are obviously impossible to save, try to not let enemies
escape who have wounded a Crimson Fist and so forth - even if it is apparent to
all fellow brothers that an attempt would be futile. The GM should not use this
curse as a way to force a PC to go to certain or likely death though.

Level 3 (Fists' Mind): The Primarch's infamous stubbornness and the zealotry of
his later years has taken over the Marine's mind, aggrivating the impact of
Fists's Tongue and Fist's Pride. He will absolutely no longer tolerate any lies
anymore in a way or form, flying into a rage (stopping short of physical
violence against fellow brothers though) and once he feels his honour being
violated, he must have it restored (not stopping short of trading fisticuffs
with fellow Brothers but shying away from doing serious damage). Also once he
has committed himself to any cause, he takes it as a matter of honour to see it
through and it will take a Very Hard (-30) Willpower Test to experience a change
of mind. This explicitly includes aborting a battle even though it might be wise
to do so.

-

I have chosen this curse because it is the only thing that fits what little I have read about the Crimson Fists in the novels. A punitive-themed curse would have been the alternative but it fits less the background and would draw more on creative license. Plus the current version underlines the defensive nature of the Fists. Defend the legacy.

Overall I am content with this version, it might need some better way of expressing it here and there (English is not my native language) but the overall direction should be fine.

Alex

A first beta version has been uploaded as a full-fledged pdf here:

rapidshare.com/files/427666679/CrimsonFistsForDW_v1beta.pdf

I hope FFG doesn't mind me using their background graphics, etc...

Alex

Alex,

I would love to have your PDF copy of the Crimson Fists. I will be GM'ing soon, for the first time. I plan on testing your rules but I can't seem to download them. I

Please help...?

Jim

Vorenus said:

Ah yes, it's in German language. I just checked it, the file can be downloaded. Here's instructions how:

(0. If you have just tried to download something else from rapidshare, you must wait until the timeout expires.)

1. Press the link on the lower right labelled "Langsamer Datentransfer" - it's the free 'slow file tranfer' link which is what you want unless some of you want to pay for creating a premium account.

2. Then there's another timer counting down, usually only a few seconds. After that press 'Jetzt herunterladen!' ('Download now!') and you are good to go.

I just tested it and downloaded my own file successfully this way.

Happy hunting and feedback is invited, particularly if sth is over- or underpowered.

Alex

I tried to download your file again, with success! Thank you very much. I will see how it works out and let you know.

Vielen Dank, (it has been years)

Jim