Just a quick historical question when did genestealers become trynids? I have the origal rogue trader and the 2 are seperet beasties

I think it was 3rd edition when they finally linked the two together, but I cannot remember exactly. It might have been 2nd, but I'm fairly certain it was 3rd.

Yeah I definetly remember them nids in the 3rd edition. Not sure about second.

I worked for GW from 89-92, and while I can't pin it down precisely, I know that Bryan and Rick had mentioned linking Genestealers and Tyranids as early as the first Space Hulk game. I don't think it was official until Tyranid Attack came out though... I can't remember.

The first army list for tyranids (which was in a White Dwarf and was towards the end of 1st edition) included genestealers. By second edition they certainly were fully integrated into the tyranid list.

are there none nid stealers?

crisaron said:

All Genestealers are Tyranid Vanguard organisms. That was the point of this thread.

The first real mention of Genestealers being part of the Tyranid race (i.e a subs species) was around the time of Warhammer 40,000 3rd Edition thought it had been hinted at in Space Hulk 1st Edition and also in White Dwarf a few times, with them being a part of the Tyranid army (as mentioned above). Rick and Bryan both loved to screw around with races that they didn't really care much for (such as Bryan killing off the Jokearo at Games Day 1990) though the success of Space Hulk kind of cemented the Genestealers into GW mythos and cannon.

All variations of Genstealer including the Ymgarl variant (first seen in Rogue Trader) are now cannon Nids

sunnywigan said:

What did he do to the Jokearo at Game day?

sunnywigan said:

Moglwi said:

In a Q&A seminar with Rick Priestly he publicly killed them off, saying that there would be no more new models for them and that they had suffered some terrible fate similar to the Eldar and had all been killed, all that remained was some of their technology and a few stragglers of the race. Rick Priestly looked on amused as the kid who asked the question looked dumbstruck. I asked Bryan later what was it with the Jokearo and he told me that they had just been a joke race, hence the name and he wanted to wipe the slate clean that that seemed as good a point as any to do so.

Needless to say although they have cropped up in books over the past 20 years no new models have been released since the initial ones came out in the Villagers packs back in 89/90 and the one that cropped up in the Judge Dredd range at the end of 91 which was meant to have been in the villagers pack I think but they wanted to release it with the Dredd range as Dave the Mayor of Mega-City One.

Marc

sunnywigan said:

I actually understand the approach GW has done with retconning its setting. When the game first game out it was kind of halk-humor half sci-fi setting and I think when the realized it was going to be a hit that it had some strong internal notions that were popular and this gave them a direction to go with overall. This direction, what seemed most popular, was a more serious, "grim-dark", xenophobic Imperium and waht we have today.

It moved away from fantasy, moved away from sharing the same "universe" as Warhammer Fantasy and it evolved into its more current form. To do that they had to cut some things out that were a bit silly (Jokearo), didnt have a fitting theme (Squats), that defied the new Imperial Creed (Imperial Beastmen), or broke away from new racial themes (Zoats no longer Nids).

While I have a healthy respect for the history of the game, I overall am pleased at some of these changes. While I would love to see the Squats back and the Jokearo embraced fully (even as a dead race) in the current canon, it probably wont happen in my hobby-time. And above all, I wish they would just let the Nocturnal Warriors of Hrud exist as the **** space skaven looking thingys they appear as in the 3E TT Book.

I still want Storm Vermin in Terminator armour -- Verminators, but it will never happen.

It shoudl also be noted that there are brief mentions of feral 'Nid organisms in various fluff.

crisaron said:

I guess what I meant to say is are there still none nid stealer are have they always been a vangard of the nids...

borithan said:

A long time old school WH40k player and old-school GW fan, I absolutely know that this above statement is FACT. Discussion is over on this topic.

There was a compendium released for second edition that included Genestealer Cults. The Genestealers even had a vehicle! A limo actually. Your leader was either a Patriarch or Magus. Both of these could channel Psychics through Genestealer Hybrids. Basically players would measure LOS from the hybrids as if the actually Psyker was there. Yes, this was a major pain in the arse for those (like myself) whom went up against these guys.

The Genestealers that are common place now were called Purestrains- while the Hybrids varied from 2nd to 4th generation. A Magus was a 4th generation hybrid (basically human, but purple.) Included with this group was the long forgotten Zoats. Zoats, being the ambassadors to planets for the Tyranids, have long since been written out of the WH40k world. The model looked like a mutant centaur with a lizard like face. A lot of people did not like the Zoats (oddly everyone in my playgroup LOVED them) and this added pressure to GW to phase them out. Zoats contribution to the Tyranid army is the dreaded Barbed Strangler, which I believe has still maintained existence in current WH40k.

Basically, yes the Genestealers have been intertwined with the 'nids for a VERY long time - just shortly after the release of Rogue Trader (the GW book of course.)

As for the mention of Tyranid Attack, I hope you had nothing to do with the game design. That game is one of the most broken games I ever played. Considering it was an update for Advance Spacecrusade, it made me very sad.

I still want my money back from that one and we're talking 18 years ago! LOL

Aw why the hate for Tyranid Attack. That was the first GW game I ever bought!

BYE

FoxPhoenix135 said:

It was before 2nd edition, as the Genestealers were connected to the Tyranids in Advanced Space Crusade . That was the boardgame where the Genestealers were regarded as the beacons for the Hive fleets.

Side issue: As much as I love the current Tyranid Warrior design, I still have a fond heart for the original Tyranid warriors.

H.B.M.C. said:

Mine was Advanced Space Crusade.

Wilfred Owen said:

They were great models to come in game like that for sure.

On a related note does anyone know where's a pic that shows a decent size comparison for a tyranid warrior? They are listed as enormous in the DW stats.