Okay, it's about that time again - having not put out one of these for several weeks now. My friend and I have played a bunch of games the past few days, and we've gotten enough Rules Questions together to warrant one of my 10-question inquries.

So...without further ado, here goes !

1.) My Opponent has a Ravager from the Deep in play. This card is a Villainous character. I have an Undercover Security in play. They are Heroic. On my turn, I play a Blind Submission on the Ravager (2-Skill card) and gain control of him until the end of the phase (Ops Phase, or whenever I play the Submission). Now...at this point, what happens ? The rules point out that if you - at any time - come to control BOTH a Heroic - AND - Villainous character...that you must immediately choose one of them to Sacrifice.

This would imply you can Sacrifice (in this case) an OPPONENTS character, who you are only "borrowing" till the end of the phase. Surely this is not correct / allowed though, is it ? If so, it would mean Blind Submissions potential power (already quite strong) could be upped several tiers since you could not only blunt an opponents attack, or disrupt his Defenses, but also kill off - via Sacrifice - one of his guys (regardless of Toughness, or even Invulnerability - if you had a 2-Skill Character which actually HAD Invulnerable...).

2.) Vengeful Mob - Syndicate Event Card - wording: " Response : After you lose a struggle, choose an opponent's character.
If that character has fewer icons than all of your characters that are not committed to a story, wound the target character. "

In our game last night, we had a situation where he had put out a Slavering Gug which had attacked a story on his turn, scoring 2-success tokens, so it was exhausted, but uncommitted (as usual for the rules) on my turn on the attack. What happened was, I sent each character I had (3-total) to each story, snagging 2-Success Tokens at each. The character in question in this example was, I think - a Disciple of the Gate - though that really doesn't matter in this case, I don't think.

Anyways....he said "you need to go through the Icon Struggles this time" ....I said...why ? He said..."don't worry, but you need to go through them..." So I said, okay...and said...Terror: I have none...there's nobody here...no effect.....Combat...I have 2...there's nobody here...no effect..."

At that point he interrupted - "okay, you won that Combat Struggle...since I had "0" combat at the story, and you had 2.....therefore, I can play this Vengeful Mob card". He then used it's effect against another of my characters who was attacking the "far left" (to give a visual aide) story unopposed, pointing out that since the low-level creature (I think it was a Servant of Nodens ?) had only 2-icons total - and his Slavering Gug had 3 (Combat) - he could use the Vengeful Mob to wound the Servant....thus killing him and preventing me from claiming any tokens at this story.

Now...I had an issue with it, since I said it seemed bizarre that you could play it as though you had "Lost" a struggle that you had nobody participating at...and said I'd ask the Forum Gurus for guidance today. He countered that if a player is not actually "losing" struggles as they resolve, even if their is no opposing characters, then why do we even award Success Tokens at the end for having at least 1-skill and no opponents ? Clearly, he argued, you are "winning" the skill check ....meaning he (the opponent) will have "lost" the skill check. If that logic holds, then surely the opponent is losing all the prior unapposed Icon Struggles too ? (assuming your guy has at least 1-of that Icon - enabling you to actually "win" it - as my Disciple of the Gate did, regarding Combat).

What is the correct way to play this ? And sorry for the longer-than-usual single question length -but this one required some explanation to enable any would-be-answerers to see what exactly happened and how we were looking at it.

3.) Sleep of the Dead - Neutral Event: Play at the end of your story phase.
Action: Choose up to 2 characters. Those characters do not refresh during the next refresh phase.

How does this function in regards to the normal Arcane Struggle taking place ? Example...I attacked a story where my opponent ended up blocking with a few Mi-Go. He ended up winning, as we went through the Struggles, the Arcane Struggle.... so at that moment, we agreed he would be able to Refresh his Mi-Go Commander.... THEN, had I wanted to play Sleep of the Dead....I would only have been able to affect the Ageless Mi-Go...because he was the only one still exhausted at that point, correct ?

If so...it means Sleep of the Dead is only useful if your opponent has nobody with Arcane who is able to commit (or has some, but not enough to actually WIN an Arcane Struggle)....correct ? I just want to know that I understood the timing and interaction with the Arcane Struggle correctly.

4.) Jack "Brass" Brady - Disrupt : Before a triggered ability resolves, return Jack 'Brass' Brady to his owner´s hand.

Okay, this guy seems like a fairly notorious Syndicate character, that I'm sure many have experience with. Anyways, my question (and the next one actually) involves his Disrupt special ability.

Basically, the in-game situation we had was ...Brady was available for my opponent on Defense....he had earlier played an Alhazred Lamp on him, boosting his combat abilities, etc. quite a bit.

I had a Feint in my hand, haivng put 3 in the deck after reading Chris "Cannon" Long - speaking highly of the card's surprise ability over on BGG forums....., and sent in all of my characters (with enough skill to win the struggle, but not enough Combat to actually wound Brady). My opponent planned to block me so I was not "unapposed" at the story....AND steal a point during the Investigation Struggle...so it would be a draw, in terms of number of Success Tokens being put on the story.

So he committed Jack to the story....I then announced my "Feint" card surprise - which reduces a chosen character's Combat Icons by -1....and reduces their Skill by -2 as well. This would have meant that Jack - LOST - the Combat Struggle, when it resolved, and would have killed him off....a great turn-around for me, at the time.

My opponent looked at the situation and said, "Okay, then, Jack's coming back to my hand" - arguing that he could use his Disrupt effect against the "Triggered Ability of the Feint card resolving"....to return him to his hand.

I allowed it, with reservation, and said I'd ask the Gurus. My contention is...if you play it like that, Jack is Immortal. He can NEVER be killed...if you play it like that. Shotgun Blast.....?? Return to hand for free (his ability costs nothing, odd.....) Deep One Assault ? - Return to hand. Single Glimpse ? Return to hand. Slavering Gug pays 4 to choose and wound ? Return to hand. Dimensional Rift triggered ? - Return to hand. Azathoth enters play ? - Return to hand....... etc. etc.

Was this an allowable way to play Jack's ability - and how is it ACTUALLY meant to be interpreted in any/all of the above-listed example situations I listed ?

5.) Winning a Story - Triggered Ability - Jack "Brass" Brady - part 2:

Okay - in the same game...we had a later situation with the Story Card "The Thing at the Gate" which says, "Each player sacrifices all of his characters".

My opponent had Jack in his hand again (after the annoying incident with the Feint - mentioned above) - and it was his next turn. He had the opportunity - since I had my lone defender exhausted by another of his Syndicate Event cards as the first action of his Ops Phase, if memory serves..... to potentially drop Jack Brady down from his hand, go into The Thing at the Gate - and win it, with 3-Success Tokens (thanks to Jack's Investigation icon).

He actually talked it over with me, and wanted to know if I felt it would be okay for Jack to win the story....have him (my Opponent) choose to activate the story's effect....to sacrifice all characters in play.....THEN "Disrupt" ! - effect with Jack Brady, to return Jack (solely) to his hand....while everything ELSE that he and I controlled would get Sacrificed...

I objected - politely - arguing that (we forgot the rule book at his house -durr) the actual "Story Resolutions" were something special - and didn't count as "actual abilities" like Event Cards or Character card effects (Slavering Gug, Demon Lover, etc) ...and thus Jack shouldn't be able to react to them. I also appealed to his sense of reason / balance and argued that it would be quite overpowered if he could nuke everything....but get Jack back...ready to come out again next round against (potentially) a defenseless enemy side of the board.

What is/was the correct way to play this ? Can Jack actually "Disrupt" the activation of a Story Card's effects and return to hand before they resolve ?

6.) Jack Brady - part-3 ! - Triggered Ability - Just for further clarity, I promised I would ask this one at my opponents request - but what IS meant by "Triggered Ability" - relative to Jack Brady's Disrupt effct...and what are the full range of things that he CAN actually use it against ? Also - I know many of you guys mention something about the published FAQ not handling the question of Jack properly - for some reason - so if anyone can comment on that "error or mistake" in the FAQ - I would be glad to hear of it as well, so as not to be mistaken by it if we read over it in the future...

7.) Calling Down the Ancients - this may be covered in the FAQ - but my friend has my copy at the moment - but what happens when there is a Tie for "Lowest Skill" - in other words....if we each have a character in play with Skill-1...and I play "Calling Down the Ancients" ...at this point, technically, NO character clearly has "the Lowest skill"... but there is a tie - each has Skill-1. Can I choose his character to be destroyed ? If not...it seems CDtA is a pretty limited card....

8.) Gibbering Soul - Shub-Niggurath character - Response : After Gibbering Soul is destroyed, search your deck for a (Shub-Niggurath) character with a (Combat) icon, reveal it, and place it in your hand. Then, shuffle your deck.

Now what is meant by "destroyed" ? It would seem simple, but my friend was arguing you could count its ability, even after it was chosen to be Sacrificed due to me activating a Cursed Skull: Action : Pay 1 and sacrifice Cursed Skull to choose an opponent. That opponent must sacrifice a character.

He picked up the Gibbering Soul, and said he would Sacrifice that....then put it into his discard and began to search his deck, as per its effect. I debated him as to whether "destroyed" was the same - in FFG's mind - as "Sacrifice".

I particularly found it curious, since it would mean you could use something like the new "Yuggoth Contract, Nefarious Pact" (the actual Neutral Attachment) card to "sacrifice" a Gibbering Soul....getting to use the Soul's ability as early as Turn-1....AND getting to draw 2 cards from the Yuggoth Contract's ability.... this seemed....a bit overpowered to me, so yet again we come to you Gurus for guidance !

How exactly should the Gibbering Soul's Response effect be played and what is meant by "Destroyed" in this case ?

9.) Gibbering Soul - another Crazy Combo: Okay, so my opponent - being a resourceful and devious (in a good way ) guy..... had mused over another brutal combo with the Gibbering Soul. He didn't actually pull this off in the game we were playing, but he COULD have - had he gotten the cards.

The cards in question were: Gibbering Soul (already listed in the above question),

Eat the Dead : Attach to a character you control.
Response : When attached character is destroyed, attach it and Eat the Dead to any domain you control as resources.

and, lastly

Shocking Transformation : (a Chris Long favorite, and for good reason, as I have learned !) Action : Sacrifice one of your characters to search your deck for a non-Ancient One character and put it into play. Then, shuffle your deck.

What my friend was imagining was .... Turn-1...he goes first. He resources and plays Gibbering Soul with one domain...then Eat the Dead on it with another domain. On his Turn-2...he resources again...and puts down a 3rd resource on one of his domains....then plays Shocking Transformation on the Gibbering Soul.

He then theorized he would pick up the Gibbering Soul...and drop it, and Eat the Dead into his Discard (per the normal procedure when Sacrificing something)....he would get the basic effect of the Shocking Transformation - searching his deck for, say a Slavering Gug...and putting it directly into play...he would ALSO get to use the standard effect for the Gibbering Soul being "destroyed" (see above question for particulars on this wording and our debate on it) ..... and get to search his deck for the Shub character with at least 1-Combat, and put that character into his hand.... and LASTLY...he would then get to pick up the Gibbering Soul and the Eat the Dead attachment (per the Eat the Dead effect)....and attach them to a domain he controlled as resources.

I argued- on the basis of all reason - that this would be an absurdly overpowered and game-ending (nearly) combo - unless the opponent had some handy destruction cards in their hand to counter on the next turn. He felt it should be possible, playing off the synergy between the three Shub cards (and he argued you WOULD need to have all three in your opening cards to get the full / speed effect - so it could hardly be called "a sure thing"). Still, I said I would present the situation to the Forum Gurus, and hope they could guide us.

Is this valid / is the combo workable in this manner ? Why or why not ?

10.) Mi-Go Scalpel- Attachment. Item. - Attach to a Mi-Go character.
Action : Exhaust Mi-Go Scalpel to have attached character gain an icon of your choise for each of your Mi-Go characters in play until the end of the phase.

My question on this (potentially great) attachment is .... when you Exhaust the Scalpel to gain the "icon of your choice for each..." how exactly is this done ? For example. Let's say you had:

Ageless Mi-Go, Mi-Go Scout, Mi-Go Commander in play. You have 3 total Mi-Go characters in play, in this case. You attach the Scalpel to the Commander...and begin your Story Phase, activating the Scalpel to make your Mi-Go Commander (with the Scalpel) much more potent during the resolution of the Struggles.

What can he actually gain ? Does he get to gain 3-Icons....all of which are the same Icon.... or is he able to choose exactly which he wants ? Since there are 3-Mi-Go in play...can he say "I'll gain 1-Terror....1-Combat...and 1-Investigation" .... or...."I'll gain 1-Terror...and 2-Arcane"....or "I'll gain 3-Combat"....basically is there any restriction on how he can gain the Icons and if he is allowed to "mix and match" them ?

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Thanks again - in advance - to any and all who chime in with answers to these questions. My friend and I are very appreciative of the aid.

Rosh87 said:

1, The FAQ states "Note that if you already control a Heroic character, you cannot take control of a Villainous character, and vice versa."

2. Well, first of all timing is wrong here - but it is not crucial to your question. The event can be played after all struggles at all stories are resolved. (See action boxes in Rules). But the question is interesting - the FAQ tells us that indeed you did "win" the struggle, but it is not explicit that your opponent lost. I'm unsure. I would probably go with the idea that if you won, then your opponent lost. But again, unsure.

3. Timing. Actions are played after all struggles at all stories are resolved. The effects of Arcane struggles are performed at the resolution of the Arcane struggle.

4. Your opponent had it right. The FAQ even gives a specific example using Jack and Shotgun Blast. Of course although Jack is "immortal", he still has to be played again to show up...

5. Winning a Story is a different thing than a triggered event. The Rules tell us that "A triggered affect is any effect preceded by the following text in bold: Action , Disrupt , Response , or Forced Response."

6. See 5 (above).

7. When there is a tie, the active player chooses (from the FAQ).

8. The FAQ tells us that "Destroyed" is different from "Sacrificed" or "Discard from Play".

9. See 8 (above).

10. Imprecise wording on the card. To me, "one icon of your choice for each Mi-Go" means that for each MiGo you can choose any icon you want and add it. So you could mix and match.

TheProfessor said:

Of course, this one example has been wrong as long as I can remember and has probably just been copy-pasted to later ones. Shotgun Blast isn't a Triggered ability (which Jack can Disrupt), but a triggered effect. My money is on the example originally meant to have been Jack vs Shotgun, then it would be okay (since Shotty gives the attached character a new "Action:", thus it adds a triggered ability to the character in play).

Thanks for the answers so far, Professor ....

...to Dam, then..... I thought there was some dispute over the Jack Brady stuff..... so IS he or is he NOT -actually "Immortal" - with that ludicrous ability ?

It's important because I play a lot of Event cards that can auto-destroy things, wound things, or force sacrifices of things. If I play A Single Glimpse, Deep One Assault, or Small Price to Pay (targeting Jack with the Wound Effect), and Jack is the target or the only enemy character on the table....then are you saying my opponent - CAN - just pick Jack back up and into his hand, and my card is wasted ?

If so - then it's pretty crazy since you can never kill him - and there is never a cost to putting him back in your hand (unlike Descendant of Eibon or other cards that require you to give something up to keep getting them back).

Also - what about (Specifically) the situation we had where I played Feint - and he (in the middle of the Combat Struggle Resolution)....wanted to pick Jack back up and put him back in his hand, avoiding having him die... ?

Is that also allowed ?

Also, though Professor pointed out the FAQ does differentiate between Sacrifice and Destroy.... (Gibbering Soul) - he didn't say exactly whether the "Three Card Effect" would actually "go off" - as my opponent had hoped for. In other words, assuming the Gibbering Soul was "destroyed" by my opponent...for instance, if he played "A Small Price to Pay" - targeting his own Gibbering Soul with the Wound effect, and something of mine with the Insanity... would at least the two abilities of the Soul allowing him to search his deck for a Shub character - PLUS - the "put Soul and Eat the Dead onto a domain as resources" - BOTH be allowed to trigger off the act of placing the soul (and attachment) into the discard pile ?

* I do realize that not being able to Sacrifice the Soul to get this effect does mean you could not pull off the Shocking Transformation portion of the "Combo" - but are the other two cards allowed to work as described just above ?

Rosh87 said:

None of the Event cards are triggered abilities, they are triggered effects. All will hit Jack full in the face and take him out. He can dodge a Dynamite use and survive, avoid a Shotgun and Prize Pistol, but Events will get him.

This post is too difficult to read, can't think of so many questions at one time ... Sorry, but I'll drop those ones ...

By popular request , I will attempt to truncate the actual questions for these in the future - since some seem to have trouble reading them...no matter how interspersed I make the individual questions, or how much I bold / italicize each number - so someone could take each question // instance as one concise thing....consider it...(if they want), and then move down to another question (if they want).

So....even though I think it's often important for people weighing in on the rules question to hear / read the in-game situation as it actually happened, to provide them with fuller details in reaching their conclusion.... I will probably just cut out that (as much as possible) and have something about this big, per question:

1.) ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

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If 3-4 lines of text for a question are too much for some people, then I don't know what more I can do to help !

I think if you made 10 distinct posts, each one containing whatever amount of context you like, people would be happier. And the thread would maintain focus - one thread per question.

Please note the tone of the posters though - they are pleased with your enthusiasm, just overwhelmed by the complexity of the thread.

Yup. It's not the amount of text, just the number of actual questions. I forgot what were first questions about before I even finished reading some of the later ones.

Well, I respect your suggestions - I just felt it was bad "Forum Etiquette" - (at least at other forums I've been a part of) to make ...10-posts all on one general theme (Q+A) - instead of putting them into one thing...and saving the space. Perhaps I'll go for a happy medium of "3-questions to a post" - that is easily readable, except by the most .....literarily challenged....and keeps the overall post small enough that people will not have trouble following things.

I do value the insight and opinions on these rules questions that you all provide though, no doubt about that.