I was reading the adventure for the GM kit Shadow of Madness. In it is has a passing mention that the Imperial Guardsmen at least to Lieutenant level does not know that they are not in the Calixis sector but on the other side of the Empire. They beleive they are in the Halo Stars, is there anywhere in the Rulebook where it states this?

on page 338 it has a brown side box about it mate

Nuada_Obliage said:

Ignorant Armies on page 338. And I was beaten to the punch... *shakes fist in impotent rage*

-=Brother Praetus=-

laughs manically for a minute befroe slapping his bionic lung to make it work **** them shody techmarines and apothecaries i only went in with a cold.......

Ah, yes, again someone discovers the most pointless conspiricy of 40k, the 'big secret' of which every kroot in the expanse knows, and probably half the Rogue Traders.

BaronIveagh said:

Minor point; there's no guarantee the Kroot know all that much about it. Kroot don't navigate the Warp like humans do, afterall, and likely don't understand the significance of the Jericho-Maw Warp Gate.

As for Rogue Traders; few use the Stations of Passage through the Maw anymore, so many vessels passing through the Maw will simply pass by the gate without ever noticing it. Those that do know... well, there's no value in a secret that everyone knows...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

"Unlike the Tau, the Kroot are capable of true warp travel but the exact method has been kept secret from their employers. To the Kroot, warp travel is almost migratory and they seem incapable of navigating anywhere other than systems with habitable worlds." - Armada, Page 108.

I think that both the instantanious transfer across the galaxy without going to warp (DW, Page 289) and the arrival at a location that it would be otherwise impossible for them to reach might tip them off that there was something significant to this...

Do we even know whether they even have much of an idea of how the galaxy looks like? Seeing as they tend towards focusing on practical subjects (like "Where will my next meal come from?" and "What will my descendants look like because of it?"), I don't think it's impossible they don't care about astronomy. Them being incapable of travelling anywhere but inhabited systems already shows their navigation works very differently from human ones. If we assume that they can see populations in the warp and just travel towards a "point of light", they technically don't even have to know where the star systems are in relation to each other in realspace.

BaronIveagh said:

As I said, they don't navigate the warp like humans. I said nothing of the technology they use to travel between worlds, merely the nature of their navigation, which that quote notes as being peculiar.

BaronIveagh said:

Different, yes; significant... that's another matter entirely. The Kroot as a species aren't particularly widely travelled compared to anyone except the Tau, and may have no idea that the Warp Gate is either particularly unusual or that it conveys them across so vast a distance (to assume that anyone can accurately and easily pin-point their relative location in the galaxy upon emerging from the Warp is, IMO, a fairly big assumption, especially for any faction that lacks Navigators - it's not like the universe is signposted).

As far as I'm concerned, the Kroot neither know nor care about how far they are from their home, nor are they particularly concerned about how they got there. The priority for them is finding something interesting to eat.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Except that the kroot intend to return to Pech with thier fresh DNA and 'laden with wealth and trophies' (Into the Storm, page 86). This would indicate an interest in things beyond eating (they're not tyranids) and suggest that they're going to wonder: "Will it be quicker to go back through the gate, or go through the warp to get home?"

As far as 'signposts in space' I can think of one, big, glowing one (admittedly it's 'Do Not Enter' or possibly 'Yield") that exists at this end of the Galaxy and does not exist at the other. The light from the Eye of Terror has only traveled for 10,000 light years.

In fluff, human civilians bordering tau space seem to at least know the Eye exists. Thank You Ecclesiarchy.

And if they didn't tell them, relax! According to Codex: Tau, page 17, it's not unknown for kroot to hire themselves out to the legions of chaos.

And all of these are assuming that they've never fought in service to the T'au and met Gue’vesa.

Curiosity is a basic trait of most predators. The reason is that on encountering something new, there's an advantage in checking to see if it's edible.

BaronIveagh said:

Kroot do not interact with the soldiers of Imperium other than through the exchange of fire. Whatever the Kroot know or don't know means nothing in this context. The Kroot are a species virtually no Calixian Guardsman would even know existed, unless they were meant to actually be deployed against them, and they certainly wouldn't be exchanging rumors with them.

Atheosis said:

Except when they're hired as mercenaries by Imperial commanders. (Which is frequent enough to be commented on)

Further, i'll point out the entire 'sanctioned xeno' trait in Into the Storm.

After all, kroot have been to Scintilla (though things did not go well[Radicals Handbook]) and are used as mercs by well known Rogue Traders. (I don't notice Lady Charlebel rotting in an Inquisitorial cell)

And, anyone who's been to Footfall (where them comming through the gate is a subject of gossip[into the Storm]) has had the chance to meet kroot mercs. The conspiricy isn't to hide what's going on from the guardsmen, it's to hide if from Lord Hax.

BaronIveagh said:

Which is an extremely rare thing to obtain (rarity being subject to narrative requirements, of course); the whole "single Adept in an unmarked office on Port Wander, with a service only available on explicit request" thing was meant to convey the rarity and difficulty of sanctioning a Xenos ally, within the context of the Calixis/Koronus region.

If anyone knows the intent behind that elite advance, it's me, as I wrote it.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Atheosis was dealing in absolutes. I was pointing out that it was not so clear cut as that.

The conspiracy DOES have a purpose. Calixian worlds would be happy to contribute to a campaign in the halo stars as this is very nearby. colonising local sectors for the imperium would be good for trade, mutual defence, etc. The Jericho reach on the other hand is the other side of the galaxy. Conquering it will not benefit the calixians at all and so they might be reluctant to support the crusade since they will not reap the rewards.

The exception becomes if they start using the warp gate but they are currently unaware of its existence and also, by its very xenos nature, it is a) unholy, b) unreliable (will it stop working randomly? eat every 5th ship.....?) not to mention c) extremely vulnerable to blockade.

When they find out it might connect them to a tyranid hivefleet....you can bet they won't want to contribute any more resources, they'll be clamouring to destroy the **** thing.

How can it connect them to a tyranid hivefleet? The tyranids do not utilize warp travel, which the only reason why they aren't completely unstoppable. They still move FTL, but in a different method. So can they still utilize the gate? Can they stumble through it? The rulebooks seems to state that it only stablizes the warp storms of the area, making a clear passage from the gate to it's other point.

Dunno about that specific case, but in general many IG soldiers have no clue where they actually are. They just get tucked into some huge cargo ship and ferried to literally "someplace".

They basically enter their cargo ship, stay there for weeks or even months, get out of the cargo ship and are "somewhere else" and more often than not "somewhere hostile" (since the place where they get out is often a hot LZ). The lower ranks usually don´t get instructed about such "details" and what little they know, they likely know from romours.

They are likely to know the name of the planet they´re fighting on at some point, but then they still don´t know what system, what sector, etc....

FoxPhoenix135 said:

But its unclear if 'nids can pass through the gate or not. Best to not find out.

That's my point though... the gate does not provide the transportation, it just clears the way through the warp. If tyranids cannot use the warp, then they cannot use the gate.

From what we know, I see no reason why Tyranids could not use the gate, if they could find it and figure out what it is. They'd probably only pass through it by accident, since a null zone like the Well of Night would discourage the hive mind from investigating, but once they realized what the gate signified they'd certainly use it to attack the Calixis sector. The only thing worse than Tyranids using warp gates would be if they found a way into the remnants of the Eldar Webway.

I don't think I'm making my point.....

Tyranids CANNOT enter the warp. They cast a shadow throughout it, but other than that they cannot enter nor affect it. They do not draw psychic power from it, all their psy power is generated by the collective Hive Mind.

Warp Gates use WARP technology. It is not a "portal", it is a like a highway from one point to the other. Albeit it shortens the time required to travel the warp to the gate's destination, you still can't get there without going through the warp.

Therefore, the only way tyranids could get through the gate is if they hitched a ride with warp-capable craft. That would be another problem all together, though, as they tried to devour the immaterium...

FoxPhoenix135 said:

No, the description of the gate states that even non warp capable ships can traverse it. You don´t need a warp drive nor do you need a geller field. The ship just gets sucked in when it´s close enough and spat out on the other side. The travel is just a couple of seconds but it´s rather rough and turbulent, so less than sturdy ships run the risk of getting heavily damaged or destroyed.

Dunno how that translates to tyranid bio ships however. Or if the hive mind would even consider using such a device.

@Baron Iveagh

The conspiricy isn't to hide what's going on from the guardsmen, it's to hide if from Lord Hax.

I've just re-read that section and it appears that this may actually be not quite true - to quote the parchment: "This (= the dissappearance of Margin and the redirection of the crusade forces) is a fact that, of course, the planetary and sub-sector governors are kept entirely ignorant of, lest they disrupt the flow of flesh and iron into the killing machine of the Achilus Crusade"

I spot a rather important office being missing there. It seems that Lord Hax is in on the whole thing after all and doesn't want to deal with the hassle of planetary governours lobbying to cut support and destroy the gate, rather fitting considering he's been characterized as a paranoid tyrant. Since many individual Calixian planets may not benefit at all from the Reach once it's been retaken, his fears are understandable.

"Warp gates are stable two-way 'conduits' between far-distant interstellar locations through the Empyrean "

So can tyranids survive this trip through the immaterium? If they can, then I see the danger posed by the gate.

FoxPhoenix135 said:

"Any solid matter passing within the sweep of the crescent´s great arms - which span a distance over a hundred kilometres - disappears into darkness and is hurled irresistibly to the other side of tha gate and spat out, arriving on the other side of the galaxy,....."

"...., as although no warp drive or Gellar field is required to use the Warp Gate, the passage through it is a rather turbulent one. It was quickly discovered that any less than sturdy vessels attempting the crossing where often badly damaged or even shaken apart by the stresses of the transit, limiting the Warp Gate´s practical use to warships or other strongly-constructed craft."

A ship without a Gellar field has no means of protection against the perils of the warp. And since you don´t need one for the gate.....well, add two and two together.

Although it is stated that bio ships are very robust and can survive heavy injuries, it can be argued about whether the smaller auxilliary ships survive the trip or not. Whether they can seek shelter within the larger bio ships or not. But tbh that´s all guesswork and theory craft.